Should I return "pre-owned" filter?

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 27 Jun 2007, 09:36

I had just bought two Eheim 2215's from an online vendor with a good (and earned reputation)--it's NOT DrsFosterSmith, though--I ended up ordering from a closer location because I wanted other stuff only this merchant had. One of the 2215's was definitely new, never been opened. The other one was missing some internal packaging--a cardboard insert to keep the filter from rattling around inside the box. The canister is scratched and dinged. The plastic bag that holds some smaller parts was ripped open. Everything had been packed back in all wrong. I phoned the merchant and told them that one of the internal screens was missing and they are going to ship me a return label so I can send it back for an exchange.

However after I got off the phone, I did find the "missing" part--entangled in the same-colored hoses. Some rubber feet I had also reported as missing were found as well, wedged in unlikely places, but they were there.

My question is what is ethical? I think the merchant would still consider this a "new" piece of equipment, as it was not actually used on a tank and they probably would not have agreed to an exchange if I hadn't of thought that the internal screen was missing. Now that I've found it, I do have a complete but dinged up filter. As I said, the canister is all scratched up and the intake nozzle on the head of the filter had a pretty good dent in it, too. But...it is just cosmetic damage, and I think it will probably work.

My husband says it was either returned because someone took a look at it and decided it wasn't what they wanted, or that someone in the pet store must have opened it up to check it out. He says the store likely won't consider it "used" and when I send it back there's the chance they may decide not to honor an exchange because the packaging is not in pristine shape. Their return policy specifies returns must be in new packaging--basically everything intact, which this package certainly is not--even though I'm not the one who did it.

I vaguely remember there being a discussion somewhere on here of a situation similar to mine but I have searched for over 20 minutes and couldn't find it. So I apologize having to post an issue I think was discussed here before.

My husband said I could test the filter and if it works, keep it. But how on earth can I test it without setting it up even a little bit, and therefore putting it into a "used" condition? The only thing I have done so far is to put clean water into the canister to make sure it doesn't leak--it does not.

If I keep the filter, do I have to reimburse the merchant for the shipping label they send me? Or do they incur a cost only if I use it? Thanks for any help.

p.s.--I AM a little worried because I have a 2213 I dropped off a counter and looking at it, you can't really tell it is damaged--but I know it was damaged because I heard it crack inside. I worry maybe something similar is true with this new unit, since it didn't have proper internal packaging and the inside of the box is all beat to heck, too.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 27 Jun 2007, 10:20

There are three options, and much of this depends on how much you trust the vendor to be "customer friendly":
1. You return the filter (without the screen perhaps?) and hope that they send back a new filter.
2. You phone the vendor saying that you've just spoken to your LFS, and they can get you a screen for $X, but you'd like a little more off because the canister is scratched (you have a digital camera so that you can send them a photo of the scratches, right?). This is perhaps the best solution, try to get, say 10% of the price off because of the "missing" bits and the scratches... This would also be the least costly option for the vendor.
3. You tell the vendor the truth - you found the screen and other missing bits, you don't want to return it. [You may still argue for a refund of 10% or some such since it's not in prisitine condition].

Whilst I can understand your concern (and paranoia), I also think that you have a good chance to get a new filter.

It is of course a question of how much you value your time vs. how much you value a brand spanking unscratched filter.

I take it that it didn't say somewhere on the page you bought the filter from "You may receive a shop-soiled or second-hand product"?

Also consider that the vendor can't really expect you to ship it back in any condition different than what you received it in - how the heck are you supposed to be able to get original packing when you didn't receive it from the vendor in the first place. I'm pretty sure that the "must be returned in original packing" is referring to when you return something because you didn't like it, rather than when the vendor sends you something in a dodgy package in the first place!

--
Mats

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 27 Jun 2007, 13:43

Yes send it back immediately.
If you set it up and find out it's useless or have another problem you haven't a leg to stand on...like a one legged pirate so to speak, or a motorcyclist that was in a bad accident or even a land mine victim, or maybe their leg had to be cut off due to a deep vein thrombosis. Anyway, you paid for your goods with undamaged money so you should have an undamaged product, don't bother telling them about the screen they didn't bother telling you the product was damaged so it seves them right!

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 28 Jun 2007, 20:15

The canister is pretty roughed up, especially compared to my 2213 canister that got dropped and has since been used to store my siphon and gets pulled in and out of storage. Despite that treatment it barely has any scratches on it so I have to wonder what the new filter was put through to make it look so scuffed.

I'll just follow the instructions I was given for the return. However what the lady told me on the phone vs. what they specify on their site is different. Their written policy is that no action will be taken without an RMA, however the person I spoke with said no I didn't need an RMA, just the label she would send me. When I finally get the label I will probably call back to confirm the instructions and get the name of the person as backup. I missed the name of the person I originally spoke to--it was mumbled.

My concern with the whole issue lay primarily in the fact that their stated policy to anyone returning an item is that they sell only new items so anything that is returned per buyer's remorse or whatever has to be returned in saleable condition. So I take it to mean that the second person to get this returned item might not necessarily have a legitimate cause for return/exchange just because an item was clearly opened and not repacked properly especially if all the necessary parts were included. I just wondered what generally is accepted as saleable condition when it comes to tank equipment. Significantly cosmetically damaged and packed in such a way that might have resulted in undetectable internal damage-- but not used in a tank--I was not sure if this was a gray area that would result in significant difficulty for me in presenting my case for an exchange.

My conversation with the employee seemed to indicate they didn't understand or think it was a big deal that I got an "open box" item even with parts missing so long as they could send me the missing parts. I couldn't even name the missing part so that's when the employee decided to offer the chance of an exchange.

I guess I do sound paranoid on all counts. I'm shy to begin with and I once had a very tough time of it with an internet vendor of robotics equipment who actually called me on the phone to scream at me because I had sent a polite e-mail wondering why my item had apparently disappeared somewhere along the shipping process. This was after a month of waiting. He basically was calling me a dumb girl, most of the emphasis of his contempt on the fact of my being female, not necessarily dumb. At any rate, I wanted to get the voice of experience on this. I just hate doing returns or exchanges. It is one of the more stressful things someone with my personality type has to do.

Thanks so much! I appreciate it and will let you all know how I make out on this.

rahendricks · Post by **rahendricks** » 28 Jun 2007, 23:13

There's no reason to feel shy or paranoid. The customer is always right. If you're not comfortable with what you've been sent, any reputable vendor will want you to return it. With so many companies to choose from, (thanks to the internet), the only thing that may differentiate them is the service they provide. If the employee you get on the phone doesn't treat you respect and concern, ask to speak to a manager. By the way, any unit that's been removed from its box isn't new, its a demo. It should only be sold as such and with a discount.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 29 Jun 2007, 09:40

Thanks so much, rahendricks. Hopefully all the discussion here will help not only me, but anyone lurking who runs into a similar situation and questions. I'm hoping the return label gets here soon. My goldfish tank is doing fine on the 2213 but I am eager to get the tank fixed up into its final configuration with dual filtration.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 20 Jul 2007, 21:31

The exchange went smoothly. It took a long time only because it took me awhile to get a return shipping box the right size--hubby kept forgetting to bring one home from work.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Jul 2007, 21:55

I'm glad it worked out right for you.

--
Mats