Unidentified Hypancistrus species

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 12 Jun 2007, 00:30

This a Hypancistrus that was a very small specimen when it came in a group of L333 or L66. I have not been able to find a match that I am sure is correct. It is now about eight cm. SL. L270 seems to be the best match.
I would appreciate an identification if anyone is able to recognize it. It is very fast and difficult to keep in focus by the time the flash goes off.

plecoboy · Post by **plecoboy** » 12 Jun 2007, 03:01

Looks like a juvenile Black and White variant of L333.

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 12 Jun 2007, 03:46

Hello,

This post opens up a whole new can of worms. I've seen L333 on export lists everywhere from Manaus to Belem. I've been told that there is some "trading" between export stations involved, but this is very unlikely given the distance. I'm going out on a limb with this one, but I've tried doing ray counts, and even measuring proportions on fish which were DOA from different shipments to answer this question. Barbie and I were discussing possible solutions nearly 3 years ago. At this time, even though all are claimed L333, I'm convinced that this number is a haven for anything that doesn't fit somewhere else. All this being done without regard to collection site. I'm curious, and maybe some of the members can answer this, whether Datz has officially listed any of these variants being sold as L333 as sub-variants. IMO, several of them, including the black and white mentioned by plecoboy, deserve their own status. Black and white L333 don't even get as large as the original strain as they seem to max at about 11 cm SL.

I know this didn't answer the question, but it does open up for a relevant discussion. Based upon what I said above, I'd be afraid to take a guess without at least knowing where the fish was exported from.

Larry Vires

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 12 Jun 2007, 07:41

I waited a year for two individual Hypancistrus to grow from 1-1/2 inches to 3 inches before asking this question because I expected the patterns would change over time.

The second individual fish looked almost just like an L46 but with the stripes being transverse bands at first. Since then it has formed a pattern more like what I associate with L66 except it also is clearly going to remain small and has a similar gracile build as L46.

My working definition for small in this context is L260 for the sake of discussion.

The closest I can come to location info is Miami, FL.
Out of 18 putative L333 I received the two odd ones, some black and white variant L333, Some possible L66, and some L318.

Thank you Plecoboy, but the body build is all wrong for L333. I have eight adults of those. The fish in question is maturing and appears as though it will not get as large as L333.

Thank you, too, Larry. You understand completely. One cannot use the word certainty and L333 in the same sentence without almost surely constructing an oxymoron. It is a catch all for every thing not L46 and not L66 as far as I have been able to ascertain.

Post by **Janne** » 12 Jun 2007, 10:16

It's , they are usual sold as "new L333 Alenquer". They are very variable in their pattern like many other species of Hypancistrus. They are transported to Santarem from Alenquer and from there to Belém and from Belém to the rest of the world, sometimes on their way they can be mixed with other species too so it's not impossible that you have more then one species...special when they are bought as small youngsters.

Janne

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 12 Jun 2007, 14:17

Hi Janne,
Thank you for the information.

I knew it was something a little different than the standard L333. It sure has an attitude. None of the plecos in that tank hold still for photos but this slighly pudgy pleco is very quick, like a humming bird as it flits from pleco to pleco, trying to bully a scrap of food away from them.

I wonder just how many species will be identified that currently pass as L333 or L66? Bet it's quite a
few. It could take a long time to find out which are valid species, subspecies or just geographical location color variations.

It sure makes it hard to put together breeding groups if one has to work within any kind of a budget.

Tokis-Phoenix · Post by **Tokis-Phoenix** » 12 Jun 2007, 19:51

It looks like a leopard frog pleco to me (L134);

[Mod edit: Use persistent link --Mats]

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Jun 2007, 09:46

Hi Tokis,

I don't think it looks at all like L134 - it's grey, not brown like L134. It is also "reversed" vs. L134, meaning that the base colour is dark with lighter pattern, rather than L134's light base with dark pattern.

Also, when you post links to the cat-elog, can you please use the persistant form of the link (which can be found in the "Cool Links" section (called "BBCode") of the Cat-eLog page) - that way the link will work even when the catelog pages are changed, which has happened three times in the last few years, and although I believe it's stable for now, you never really know what's going to happen in the future.

--
Mats