My Poor Little Blue

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 02 May 2007, 01:03

I'm sorry.

Okay, well I think we both have said everything left to say about our pandas anyway--the survivors are healthy, long may they live! I'm lousy about keeping up with e-mails--hate sorting through spam or forwarded jokes from friends and relatives I never hear from otherwise... and even worse with PM's.

Sorry for the breach of etiquette, David and others. Saphphx, thank you once again for commiserating in our cory panda problems and for the advice. You made the whole time more bearable. Best wishes to you on your fish.

saphphx · Post by **saphphx** » 14 May 2007, 16:34

My last panda from the sick lot died last night

well depressing.

hellocat - my msn is saphphx at hotmail dot com

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 21 May 2007, 08:59

I'm very sorry to hear that.

I hope it's okay to respond to your post here but I'll keep your e-mail on hand too just in case this post gets banned. I've reread the forum rules and believe this post will be okay as it is on topic about panda loss.

I had lost one more panda since I posted last and have only 3 remaining. The LFS no longer stocks pandas at all, not that I was planning on restocking from them anyway--frankly I'm thrilled with my tank and inhabitants as-is.

I'll never be sure, but I can only guess it was a nitrite spike that got the poor panda, after I'd tried eradicating a benign fungus (came in on some plants) with a tablet from Jungle Buddies. The tablet threw my bio filter off for about a week and that was enough to kill the panda off, even though the readings weren't too bad and my other fish were not affected. Still, it was the only parameter out of whack & after I realized that the tablet was hard on biological filters, I had almost braced myself for a loss. Fortunately it was not a major hit to my bio-filter and the filter re-established quickly--plus once I realized I'd lost some biological capacity, I quickly took the following steps to minimize the damage while the filter recovered.

I've found a very interesting product called Chemi Pure by Boyd's. I can only describe it as black gunk in a filter bag--just stick it in the filter, put some floss media around it, and you're good to go. I ordered it online and it's available at many internet retailers--don't know if it's available in the UK. I don't really understand what it is, but after reading what it supposedly does, I decided to try it. It's not a miracle cure--if for example you have a nitrite or ammonia spike from a dead fish--which I did after the last panda died and I hadn't found him for a few days--well you're going to have a spike and that's that. The Chemi Pure can take the edge off, though.

What really helped was that I used Nitra-Zorb packet in my Ecco Cannister filter to take up the excess ammonia and nitrites while my bio-filter re-established itself. NitraZorb is another chemical filter media that is very easy to use and is even rechargeable in salt water. I was introduced to it when I was using the Rena XP3 Filter, because the same company that makes the filter, makes the Nitra-Zorb. It works very well either to help in emergencies or to take the edge off of unexpected ammonia spikes from dead fish, food that got hidden somewhere to rot, that sort of thing.

Getting back to Chemi-Pure--it seems to help keep nitrates down, and the water is extraordinarily clear and my Danios all of a sudden just GREWWWW. They hadn't grown much since I got them around last fall but after adding Chemi-Pure to my filter, the Danios grew, the green Aeneus that had looked kind of iffy perked right up, and the 3 surviving pandas are looking very panda-ish. I don't believe that Chemi-Pure's assistance lies in what it filters out--rather it seems to put something back into the system, but I I am not sure I have the education to understand what.

I've also recently added many more plants, 2 huge arches of Malaysian Driftwood, one small piece of Malaysian Driftwood, and a new powerful CoraLife single strip compact flurosecent light fixture to further upgrade my main tank. It's finally come together to be the Corytopia I'd hoped to have, and that people on this forum helped me plan out.

I also discovered my Betta has a green thumb, and when I buy plants, I first put them in with the Betta for several weeks to get a lush growth of roots. Betta poop water is just awesome fertilizer. The Betta now has a small filter in his tank, but even so, with plants surrounding him, it's amazing how I was able to cut down his water changes in such a small tank & still see him thrive. Once the plants are thriving, I transfer them to the 40 gallon tank, where there really is no fertilizer--just plain gravel. I pile marbles around the base to discourage Clementine from totally uprooting them. The few that don't survive Clementine's antics get thrown back in with the betta to recuperate. I'd originally intended to follow Apistomaster's suggestion of sort of potting my plants within the tank. But I never could make up my mind how committed I felt to having plants in the tank. I started out just by throwing them in, barely even bother to root them. It was my Betta who demonstrated what plants can do for a tank. However, I can not envision myself getting high-tech with them or using fertilizers. Not with so much wonderful poop and a helpful Betta at my disposal! The betta poop dissolves so fast I really can not vac it out.

As for the main tank, Clementine is the super pooper of the group, but I find I have my filters set up just right that I don't need to poop vac in there very often, either. I've checked the filters a few times and the poop is always in there, not on the gravel. 2 Eheim cannisters going full blast really do an awesome job!

I also no longer do water changes to the 40 gallon tank anywhere near on the scale I had done before. I still do a small weekly changeout, but really with the Chemi-Pure & all the plants shoved into that tank, it's not necessary, just a small precaution.

I have absolutley no plans to add any more cories to this tank, but I am waiting to see how long the Pandas live in my current setup, and it will be a good test of whether or not I've hit on a setup that will prove to be stable enough for these little delicate cories. Trust me, I've made a lot of mental notes for the preparation of a future tank.

saphphx · Post by **saphphx** » 01 Jul 2007, 18:54

interesting read.

I've lost 2 more pandas. I have no plans of getting more, I do twice as many changes as I use to and still have problems, so I just give up.

Good luck though! Last time I tried a nitrate remover it almost killed my whole tank!

Keep me posted!

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 04 Jul 2007, 00:51

Oh no, I'm so sorry for your additional losses. I still have my 3 pandas despite having put them through a complete substrate change. I switched from plain gravel to a mix of EcoComplete and fine gravel of the same type but different color as what I was using prior. The sterba and peppered cories like the spots that remain bare of gravel and congregate there on the EcoComplete but competely boycott the gravel. The pandas are constantly in motion so I can't tell what they prefer. Aeneus like everything.

I have decided I terribly miss the dirt-bottomed look the tank had before the colored gravel went in. I'm going to siphon out most of the colored gravel and put another layer of EcoComplete. Unfortunately EcoComplete doesn't hold plants in too well because the grains are too lightweight. So I will have to resort to my old trick of weighting the plants down with marbles and stones until they build out their roots. I hate doing that because marbles hold in too much detritus but at least it's only temporary.

I'm now in the process of accumulating some of the equipment for another 50 gallon tank for Clementine and some of the larger cories.

So when this is all done I will have two 50 gallon tanks in the family room, next to each other. And the 40 gallon "Corytopia" tank will be up in the spare bedroom that serves as my office and my daughter's playroom. The other 50 gallon has 3 small fancy goldfish in it.

My husband is still reeling from the shock of agreeing to having a third tank in the house.

What kind of nitrate remover did you use that nearly killed your whole tank? I don't generally use any bottled chemicals--just the Seachem Prime or on occasion, Stress Coat. If I feel the need to do anything chemically, I do it via filter media. NitraZorb is tried and true for me as is Chemi-Pure. Seachem Purigen is also highly spoken of among the goldfish keepers.

But since I made my last post I've taken out all chemical media in the cory tank because they were taking out too many nitrates and my plants were suffering for it. I now have a lot of plants in place, however they're not very well grown out yet. When I get enough of a jungle I'll transfer some to the goldfish tank, which I intend soon to also be a planted tank. I'm told goldfish produce a lot of CO2 and therefore I won't need CO2 injection to maintain a lot of plants in their tank.

I have a feeling that plants and driftwood are key to helping me keep my pandas but I don't fully understand how yet. I just know so much as improved for us since I got rid of the artificial plants and fake decor (except for one resin cave for Clemmie) and put in the Malaysian driftwood and plants.

I just wish I could put in a wider variety of plants and add some java moss, too. But so far I've been sticking to pre-packaged plants labeled snail free. I'm really reluctant to introduce snails into the tank. I'm still researching the ramifications of having them in the tank ecosystem. I know there are chemicals to deal with snails while plants are in quarantine, but I don't know if bleach and potassium permaganate are things I want to handle or have in a house with a 2 year old.