is he sick?

catdoc · Post by **catdoc** » 29 Apr 2003, 14:58

I got a 3" gold nugget (I think L177) in December. He had been in a 55-gal community tank and doing well, eating bogwood, algae wafers, sinking catfish tablets. I tried providing fresh veggies but he never seemed to take to them, so I stopped.

4 weeks ago, we moved to a new house and I relocated him into a smaller tank with fewer fish, I thought he'd benefit from having more space to himself (although the new tank is 20gal, instead of the previous 55). The tank itself was not cycled but the gravel, filter media, and aquarium decorations/caves all came from a well-cycled tank. For companions, he had 5 nickel-sized baby angels and a single neon. On Saturday, I noticed he was not hiding in his cave and was skittering around the tank, holding onto the sides of the tank. I thought at first that it was good b/c I rarely get to see him out and about. Later that day, he was hovering over the bottom of the tank and I noticed he wasn't attached to the substrate. This worried me b/c a friend had a pleco that got sick last month and this was the first sign she had that he was sick, then he died (her tank was nasty though, she never did water changes--YUCK).

I usually do weekly water changes. On Saturday, I did a 25% water change, nitrates were 10 before the change. (Nitrites and ammonia zero, did not check pH). Did another 25% water change Sunday too. Nitrates now not detected. I also started offering veggies again and he's nibbling at the spinach, just enough to make little holes. I still don't see him trailing his usual pleco poo though. And now, I may be getting paranoid, but I think his eyes look sunken! That really has me worried from what I've read here. I thought I was taking such good care of him, but I guess I messed up somewhere.

I can't see his belly to see if it's sunken since he's back in hiding. I got rid of his old wimpy filter, added a powerhead to the UGF yesterday. I also moved all of the other fish out of the tank and I left the tank's lights off when I left for work this am. Added melafix once a day for the past three days. Thinking that I better replace the filter I threw out last night but not sure with what? I have an Emperor and an Eclipse Biowheel/filter on the other tanks.

What else do I need to do? Am I going to lose him? Does anyone have a pic of a pleco with sunken eyes so I can see what it looks like? I'm hoping that I"m just overreacting but afraid that I'm not. I think I'm going to need someone to point me in the right direction on pleco care b/c it looks like I'm failing at it on my own. I got a royal this weekend and now I'm terrified I'm doing something wrong to him and not knowing it (he is eating VERY well and is in a separate tank).

Can someone talk me through this??

Christy

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 29 Apr 2003, 16:37

Christy

It is possible that with an uncycled tank, the move, water changes and replacing filters and power heads that your fish may be a little shocked right now. Leaving the lights off is a good idea, my plecos respond very well to a little peace when they are sick. I have two gold nuggets and they are very skittish, more so than several of the other plecos. The move may have stressed him. Was he acting normal before the move? It will probably be best to discontinue any tank changes until he improves. Monitor the Nitrites and Nitrates, if they are high, do a partial water change. With a new tank and uncycled water, it is best to leave the filters alone and allow the beneficial bacteria to build up again. Too much well meaning cleaning can actually be harmful in an uncycled situation.

You sound like you are paying attention to your plecos behavior, which is a GOOD thing, you can detect things very early on by monitoring their behavior. I had the same problem with my L239 and I lost two of them, it doesn't mean you are failing! Sounds to me like you are caring and attentive, just let the tank cycle correctly and see how he does.

Royals are great plecos too, but they need driftwood in their environment! They need room to grow and are a messy one, but they are my favorite of all of them!

Good luck! Keep us posted on how he does.

catdoc · Post by **catdoc** » 29 Apr 2003, 17:26

Vik, thank you so much for the quick reply! I'm sneaking online to check for help every chance I get today--glad to hear a little feedback. You think the tank was going through a cycle even with all of the cycled substrate, etc? If so, it's finished with that phase judging by the ammonia/nitrite levels (zero). He seemed totally fine before the move but it was a bit of a challenge coaxing him out of his cave for the move. In hindsight, I should have moved him IN the cave in a bucket but I didn't think of that until after the fact...

As for changing filters, it was a used setup with a Whisper filter (didn't like it, it barely worked, just a trickle of water flowing out of it, meant to replace it but never got to it). I just added the powerhead yesterday so I don't think it caused the stress but if you think it's contributing to it, I'll shut it down for a few days. I was hoping the current would "cheer" him.

The royal is in a 30 gallon, with 5 baby angels (the ones that were with the gold nugget until this morning), and 5 neons. He has a big hunk of driftwood and piles of pleco poo, so I think he's eating well. He also has spinach and zucchini offered, prefers the spinach. I don't have a powerhead but figure I need to add one. I'm siphoning off pleco poop daily to keep up, this involves me doing a 4-gallon water change too. Too much? I'd like to just convert my 55-gal to a pleco tank if the L177 and royal will cohabitate ok.

Thanks again!

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 29 Apr 2003, 19:29

I think the power head is a good idea! They seem to help with oxygenation and water flow. I have an 80 gallon with a 5" gold nugget and a 10" royal in it and I haven't noticed any territorial problems (yet), so I am sure yours will get on fine as well. As long as they don't both want the same cave, then they may tangle until it is settled who gets it.

I have a tough time with smaller tanks, it seems they can get so far out of balance so quickly that I constantly fighting problems, when I got my first larger tank I was amazed at how easy it was to care for them. I think that a water change every day may be too much - even 4 gallons.

Does your nugget still act strange? Was it a one day thing? Does he have any bloating or external signs of disease? Are his eyes cloudy? I would keep giving him spinach if he eats any at all that is a good thing! Hopefully, he was just adjusting to his new home and will begin to like it there and shape up for you!

Vicki

catdoc · Post by **catdoc** » 29 Apr 2003, 21:30

No, still acting strange--absolutely reclusive (even more than usual). When I went home for lunch, he hadn't budged since I had left that morning. His colors seem a bit more vivid though, I'll take that to be an encouraging sign. I also increased the air flow into the power head, hoping to increase his O2 a little more.

I think I'll plan on moving both plecos into a larger tank, but I need to wait until the nugget is feeling better--hate to stress him again. I agree that the larger tanks are much easier. Wish I'd never bought this 20-gallon and I may just turn it into a fry tank for my angels or maybe goldfish for my daughter. Now, to find a way to convince my husband to let me get a nice 125-gal tank...any tips on that one?

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 29 Apr 2003, 22:55

Any birthdays or big anniversaries comng up? Good luck, hope your nugget pulls through!!!

catdoc · Post by **catdoc** » 05 May 2003, 05:37

Gold nugget doing great! He's really taken to the spinach and is going through a leaf a day. I've been leaving the tank lights out all day. He's coming out to forage after the room lights go out (I've sneaked in on him with a flashlight to see what he's doing) and is looking fine. Is it ok to offer the veggies every day or should he be primarily on the wood? I added another piece of driftwood today, different kind than what was already there. Hubby thinks I'm nuts--been scoping out the driftwood at the LFS and on ebay!

Still trying to talk him into a larger tank for my plecos. I absolutely hate the 20 gallon, it's MORE work than my 55 and only has 2 fish in it. I'm ready to scrap it to make room for something better! Someday, hopefully sooner rather than later, I'll be making the move up.

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 05 May 2003, 16:45

Keep an eye on the newspapers! I just found a 125 gallon with stand, light strip and hood for $300. The newspapers are great for used tank set ups! Congrats on the gold nugget doing so well!!!