scientific names

seds · Post by **seds** » 17 Apr 2007, 00:13

what is wrong with using common names for catfish? whenever I post with common names people ask for a scientific name as well. I understand that there are hybrid catfish and some unidentified species, but some fish have multiple scientific names...

scientific names are basically common names in latin... is it really that important?

.just wondering.

Post by **Silurus** » 17 Apr 2007, 00:23

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4200

Dave Rinaldo · Post by **Dave Rinaldo** » 17 Apr 2007, 00:31

but some fish have multiple scientific names

It's the other way around.
Different fish have the same common name.

Someone else will expound on this and answer your question better than I can.

seds · Post by **seds** » 17 Apr 2007, 01:52

it's the other way around.
Different fish have the same common name.

Someone else will expound on this and answer your question better than I can.

how about barbus semifasculus
puntis schuberti
barbus schuberti
barbus sachsi
There may be several common names too;
gold barb
schuberti barb
red fire barb
yellow glass barb

all the same fish.

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 17 Apr 2007, 03:43

Hi Seds!!

Sure... but still it refers to one and same fish, and it is known worldwide...

Common names can be applied to different species and often differ from a country to another...

Adding more and more mess

Go with Scientific is 100 times easier...but I admitt some are really tough to spell... try saying 10 times Tahuantinsuyoa macantzatza without a single hesitation...lol

Cheers
Yann

Shaun · Post by **Shaun** » 17 Apr 2007, 03:43

I think you'll find all the other latin names are older synonyms of the current name: Puntius semifasciolatus this is due to things such as the fish being described twice by different people and in the case of Barbs, the genus name has changed a couple of times.
The common name "Schuberti Barb" comes from the person that developed the gold strain: Thomas Shubert.

Once you get the hang of it, latin names are a much less confusing way to identify fish. Common names (and the L-number system) are becoming incresingly difficult to use as fish are mis-identified by suppliers, wholesalers, retailers all the time. And the fact that the same people seem to be constantly inventing new common names!
Shaun

Sandtiger · Post by **Sandtiger** » 17 Apr 2007, 04:32

seds wrote:
it's the other way around.
Different fish have the same common name.

Someone else will expound on this and answer your question better than I can.
how about barbus semifasculus
puntis schuberti
barbus schuberti
barbus sachsi
There may be several common names too;
gold barb
schuberti barb
red fire barb
yellow glass barb

all the same fish.

Latin names do change when new information about the species relation to others is dicovered but genreally speaking they don't change and even if they do it is globally recognized by the scientific community. There is only one valid scientific name at any given time.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 17 Apr 2007, 07:42

A complete other line pf arguing (not that the former woulds not be conclusive) is that people around the globe visit this site. Common names have a tendency to be unknown in other countries.

The scientific name is used everywhere. So by using only common names in fact you restrict your posting to only your contrymen/women

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 17 Apr 2007, 07:45

Also remember that this forum is NOT a solely US thingy. or UK thingy for that fact.

so it's international and for a load of people English isn't their native language at all.

so if you come around talking about -for example- "Vampire Pleco's", there's going to be a lot of people thinking "what? what? does it suck blood? does it fly around the house at night? does it go after my 13 year old virgin daughter?"....the South American local fishexporter would probably have a very nice sounding "Spanish" name for it, let alone the native Amazonian catcher who has an indigenous name for it wich would likely be unpronouncable for any gringo ;)

but if you write "Leporacanthicus galaxias", everyone will know that you're talking about a certain big-toothed shrimp- and snail-eating catfish with a suckermouth.

for a Chinese fishkeeper: that's the same fish. for a Latino fishkeeper somewhere south of the US; it's the same fish. etc etc.

Latin names are used worldwide, commnon names are not.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 17 Apr 2007, 11:45

seds wrote:how about barbus semifasculus
puntis schuberti
barbus schuberti
barbus sachsi
There may be several common names too;
gold barb
schuberti barb
red fire barb
yellow glass barb

all the same fish.

Yes, but of the scientific names, only one is VALID (and not one that you listed): Puntius semifasciolatus.

Invalid scientific names are still better than common names, because scientific names are by definition guaranteed UNIQUE [1], one name is used for one fish only. There may be synonyms, but they always indicate ONE species, and one species only. As indicated in the link by Silurus (in a post by Silurus), the "Silver catfish" is used for no less than nine different species. So if I say "How big does a silver catfish grow", it will be "depends, but it's somewhere in the of a several inches to several feet", which is rather unhelpfull if you want to know the size of a particular species in your shop.

Synonyms are "other scientific names that aren't valid", which as described above happens for a number of reasons:
1. Multiple descriptions of the same species.
This happens when more than one scientist describes a species.

2. Re-description and merge of species.
Some scientist re-examines the original species described, and decides that the original species described is the same as another already described species.

3. Change of genus.
When looking at differences between genus, the scientist may decide that what used to be in one genus, actualy have more in common with another genus, so it should be moved from genus A to genus B, meaning that A xx is now B xx instead, making A xx a (not valid) synonym.

4. Corrections.
Sometimes the original description contains mistakes. For example, the genus has a gender (male or female), and the related species name should have the correct ending for the genus gender. If this is "fixed up", then the older (incorrect) name is considered a synonym.

Here's a link for P. semifasciolatus synonyms. As you can see, there's three descriptions (different names in the author column). By standards, the oldest description is always used here.

[1]The combination of genus and specific name is by the definition of the binominal system defined as a UNIQUE entity, no two species in the world can have the same combination as they are currently described.

This includes case where a 5-striped and a 6-striped fish (for example) that are currently considered ONE species, may of course in some future description of species be SPLIT into two different species.

--
Mats