Pangasius hypophthalmus in a big tank

Sarajute · Post by **Sarajute** » 18 Mar 2007, 04:43

I've just recently talked my husband into letting me get a 5th tank which will be from 220-500 gallons depending on what fish I get. He really likes iridescent sharks so I thought I would ask here to shed some light on the subject. One of our local pet stores sells them. They are already 2 feet long.

What is a good size tank for these fish?

Can you have more than one in a 500 gallon tank? is it better to have one instead of 2 or 3?

What are good tank mates for these fish? Pacu I'd be scared would outgrow the tank.

Has anyone here ever kept these fish and had success?

Do you think it's mean to keep these fish in an aquarium because they are scaredy cats? I did read about how scared they can get causing them to bash there face on the tank.

I'm very dedicated to my fish, but I wouldn't want to make the wrong decision. Any advice would be great.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 18 Mar 2007, 08:42

Pacu I'd be scared would outgrow the tank

pangasius get BIGGER than Pacu.....longer at least and much, much more active.

if you think pacu's are too big, forget pangasius.

actually there's only 1 place in the house where Pangasius looks good:

unless you plan to raise it to edible size (1or 2 feet) and eat it, like a farm animal, best leave it where it is. btw there's nothing wrong with raising a big catfish on a healthy diet in a short time and then eat it.
we do it with pork and beef and even tilapia's so why not a catfish?

Pangasius are NO pets, they are consumptionfish.

btw they taste quite good! catfish in general do. KwiKwi's, Pangasius, Silurus, Clarias, big Plec's.....tasted them all and yes, good food.
to make some Dorad stew or Gumbo with Channel cat in it is on my to do list.

no kiddin. some fishes are best left swimming in their native rivers or to be eaten. it's far more humane than to try to keep them cramped in a far too small tank where they only have stress, diseases and more stress.
raising them and eating them instead is doing them a favor.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 18 Mar 2007, 09:16

I got a 4*1 meter tank in my livingroom. The pangasius can grow to 100 cm - so this tank is far too small for this active swimming fish.

Just as sidguppy suggedsted, only get it when you intend to eat it.

Quite some cichlids grow larger than usable in a tank. I once suggested the same solution (in fact I BBQed a few males I had too much) on a cichlid forum.

Guess what - almost everyone agreed, only Dicus keepers had problems with this

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 18 Mar 2007, 10:57

Looks like the guy owning the site you linked to is a really uptight jerk.
In other words: you might want to edit out that Goatse picture he swapped for whatever it was you linked to.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 18 Mar 2007, 12:47

Mike_Noren wrote:Looks like the guy owning the site you linked to is a really uptight jerk.
In other words: you might want to edit out that Goatse picture he swapped for whatever it was you linked to.

Done. Anyone know who Jan Moesen is? Anyway, his site is set-up to display a nasty image if you hotlink an image. If anyone wants to see what Pangasius and Gnocci looks like, put this URL in your browser.

http://jan.moesen.nu/media/photos/2006/ ... omsaus.jpg

Jools

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 19 Mar 2007, 07:22

haven't reread the topic and no clue what a Goatse is, but some people obviously should be banned from humanity for sheer nastiness.

too bad.

anyway; I had no intention of polluting this forum, mind.
I was just showing a plate with pasta with Pangasius.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 19 Mar 2007, 12:24

Obviously, the question in the poll assumes that you mean "normal" home aquaria. There are some members of this forum that knows (or knows of) someone who has a significantly larger than average tank for keeping red-tailed catfish - in the range of tens of thousands of gallons!

But if you count home aquaria as something that would fit in most normal living rooms, then no, you shouldn't keep those in a "home aquaria".

--
Mats

Sarajute · Post by **Sarajute** » 20 Mar 2007, 02:27

I see people buying them in the stores all the time. I didn't know they got that big. I thought maybe 3 feet in length. I thought maybe a 500 gallon tank would be big enough. The pet store said I only needed a 200 gallon tank, but I thought I'd check here first. I'm glad I didn't jump into anything without asking here first. I love my fish, and could never eat them

. I literally cry if my fish get ich, or aren't feeling well. I don't know of any place around here I could donate it to if it outgrew a 500. I seen a large pacu once. Some fish just aren't meant for aquariums(unless they are thousands of gallons). I understand that, and wouldn't even take the chance of hurting a big beautiful fish like that. After posting this question I read a section where someone explained how too many catfish are kept in small aquariums, and never grow to there correct size, and can live for over 20 years. Can all catfish get that huge, even plecos? When I bought my striped raphael catfish, my mom swears she seen one in a large aquarium and was the size of my kitchen table.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 20 Mar 2007, 07:53

Sarajute wrote:Can all catfish get that huge, even pl*cos?

Yes, the larger ones. I got a gibbiceps which I got 18 years ago. It looks as smooth as when IO got it, but it is nearly 50 cm instead of 10.

I think it will life for at least another 20 years.

In fact, I'm 40 now, and i'm wondering, if I get some new plecos, will they outlife me?

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Mar 2007, 08:23

Can all catfish get that huge, even pl*cos?

Check out the size data in the cat-elog. With 3093 species and counting there are catfish of pretty much every size. Unfortunately Pangasius are in the top 10 big ones.

When I bought my striped raphael catfish, my mom swears she seen one in a large aquarium and was the size of my kitchen table.

Raphaels get to about 6" max. Your mother probably saw one of these.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Mar 2007, 10:48

[pedantic]As a genus, Pangasius is definitely in the top few genera in size. In the sizes given in Cat-eLog, the species in question ends up on 27th place of the 51 that grow to 1m or longer.[/pedantic]

It's probably fair to say that would be unlikely to grow to much more than 3ft. However, a 500g tank (using the measurements I found on the first Google hit that made sense) isn't nearly large enough for an ACTIVE fish of 3ft [in fact, I wouldn't even consider it large enough for ANY fish of 3ft in size], as the size I found is 3ft x 3ft x 8ft. That's roughly the right size for a fish of 1.5ft in lenght that is AVERAGE activity.

Note also that if you double each side of the tank, you get 8 times more volume. That means if you took your 500 g tank and doubled all sides, you end up with a 4000 g tank (that is 16 ft long and 6 x 6 feet on the short sides). That would, in my personal opinion, be sufficient for an average active fish, but you'd be looking a little longer/wider for a very active fish as discussed here.

The size-range for catfish is from roughly half an inch to 16 feet or so. There's, as stated above, some 50 odd fish that grow to 1meter (approx 3'3") or more. There are some 1700 fishes in the Cat-eLog. 1369 of those are less than 500mm (approx 20"), and thus in the size-range that fits with a 500g tank. [That's not necessarily meaning that they would all work well in that size tank].

--
Mats

Sarajute · Post by **Sarajute** » 20 Mar 2007, 15:13

What about keeping a fish like Pteropangasius pleurotaenia?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Mar 2007, 15:34

Yes, would be a candidate. Finding one for sale will probably be a challenge tho' (and identifying it correctly so that you don't get some "Giant" fish).

Of all the fish in the Pangasiidae family, the P. pleurotaenia has 2.8% of the hits, less than 10% of the hits of the two main "hitters". This is an indication that it's not a commonly seen fish.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Mar 2007, 15:46

What about keeping a fish like Pteropangasius pleurotaenia?

I very much doubt these fish have ever been exported. If you ordered them in, you will most likely end up with , and you would want to be very sure you had the right species.

In my opinion you are much better off with a catfish that is a lot more adapted to life in a tank. One of the larger Doradids such as would make a much better hand tame pet than a skittish and nervous .

I've seen a 30" in a tank of about 6'x3'x3' and it looked awful. It was covered in bloody abrasions where it kept freaking out and banging into the decor.

Stingrays would also be a much better proposition too. These can also be hand trained.

Both these fish are relativey peaceful, so you could combine them with tetras, Geophagus, discus and plecs such as , or a large .

Also, a big tank doesn't have to mean big fish. If you kept the fish you bought to under 6", you could keep buying new fish for years.

How good would that be

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Mar 2007, 15:57

I completely agree with Racoll.

There are of course other options for a more "silvery swimming fish", such as , if that's what you really want. It's not the same as a Pangasiidae, but they are much easier to find, and will not outgrow the tank (even if you get a different one than you ask for).

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Mar 2007, 16:04

and are similar looking fish that would also do very well in that tank in a shoal.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 20 Mar 2007, 16:32

if you really like the idea of a "shark-like" actively swimming shoaling silvery reflecting catfish that is available in LFS now and then and can be kept in a reasonable-sized big tank, this is your fish:

Schilbe spp.

As you can see it resembles Pangasius for quite a bit!
often for sale as Schilbe mystus, or more properly . common name is "Buttercat" or "Grasscutter" or even African Giant Glasscatfish.

if you keep just a few they tend to lay on the substrate a lot, but if you keep them in a proper group (8 or more) they swim the whole day.

Schilbe is dead easy to keep, it's not skitterish at all (!), it even can be handfed, wich is completely impossible with most Pangasidae, cause those would freak out.

You can keep Schilbe's with almost anything, and since they're not agressive at all, nor territorial, they can be kept with more nocturnal catfishes that claim a cave or hole in a piece of bogwood.
they are perfectly suitable for a tank with mediumlarge but peaceful cichlids (Oscars, Eartheaters, Pike cichlids etc), the larger Pimelodids, Synodontis, Dorads, Auchenipterids, Bagrids etc.

They only have 1 downside: this is one big fat voracious glutton! and yes, they can and do eat tankmates up to 2-3" when those are slimbuilt. a highbuilt characin like Metynnis (Silver Dollar) for example is perfectly safe, but even adult fully grown Congo Tetra's would be toast.
and because a shoal of Schilbe's simply never stops eating they can be fierce competitors to slowmoving finicky eaters like Sorubim. I once had 2 10" Sorubims and the schilbe's nearly starved those to death by simply eating faster.....the Dorads, Claroteids and other fish in that tank were perfectly OK.

other nice tankmates for Schilbe include Polypterus, Erpethoichthys calabaricus, Xenomystus nigri, Anaspidoglanis, fully grown Pantodon bucholdzi etc etc.

kept a group for years and they are always visible, always reacting to you when you approach the tank.
a greatly underrated fish and often (well, they're not common in the trade) dirtcheap too.

ps: there's a mistake made in the catelog-page of this species, cause Schilbe intermedius sure gets larger than a mere 60mm; it easily reaches 20-25cm in a large tank and sizes given from the wild go up to 30-40cm or so.
SG

[Mod edit: Change link to use CLOG-tags -- Mats].

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Mar 2007, 17:59

sidguppy wrote:there's a mistake made in the catelog-page of this species, cause Schilbe intermedius sure gets larger than a mere 60mm; it easily reaches 20-25cm in a large tank and sizes given from the wild go up to 30-40cm or so.

And right you are; it has been changed/edited.

Sarajute · Post by **Sarajute** » 20 Mar 2007, 19:09

I really like the Schilbe intermedius. It has a similar look to it. I've been thinking of getting some cichlids. The Sorubim lima is really cool too! I really love the L025 also!!! I have a pimelodus blochii named sassy. I don't know if it is female or male. Thanks for all the help!!!

Sarajute · Post by **Sarajute** » 21 Mar 2007, 00:55

My spouse likes the Sorubim Lima. Can they be mixed with cichlids?

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 21 Mar 2007, 08:34

don't forget what I told you about mixing Lima's with schilbe.

I too liked both fish, but in the end sold my Lima's cause they were not happy with 8 fast growing Butter Cats......

As far as cichlids go: only very mild mannered ones! the Lima is a gentle fish, a peaceful piscivore wich like things quiet.

Territorial cichlids have no place in a Lima tank and greedy voracious feeders cause similar problems like described above.

my best guess would be Earth Eaters; Geophagus and the like.

Moontanman · Post by **Moontanman** » 26 Mar 2007, 00:51

I don't want to start another "discussion" about keeping large fish in small aquariums or if keeping a large fish in a "too small" aquarium will keep it small because small is a relative term for Pangasius hypophthalmus. Even at 12 to 18 inches an Iridescent Shark still has to have much more room than a similar sized red tailed shark or flathead catfish. Behavior, excitability, and need for the company of it's brethren must be factored in when you keep any fish. Most people simply don't have the room or the deep pockets needed to have a 1000 gallon aquarium. The African glass catfish is a great fish but it wouldn't be my pick for shark look alike. I am lucky enough to live on the coast of North Carolina (USA) and in the summer the Atlantic Sharpnose Shark (Rhizoprionodon terraenovae) gives birth to it's pups along the beaches where I live. I often catch and keep the pups for short periods of time in the summer and they are what most people think of when they say shark! To be able to keep eleven or twelve of these small sharks in a natural school would be fascinating to say the least but like the iridescent shark they get to be much bigger than the cute ten inch pups I catch in the summer. (4') The only freshwater fish I know of that looks more like a shark than Pangasius hypophthalmus is Centromochlus heckelii. This fish has the shark look almost better than real sharks! I don't know anything of it's habitat or if it schools and swims all the time like iridescent sharks or if it just sits on the bottom looking cool. Does anyone know anything about this fishes behavior or if this fish is available in the hobby? I would trade being able to buy iridescent sharks for being able to buy Centromochlus heckelii any day. Now back to figuring a sure way to win the lottery so I can really keep that school of iridescent sharks, pacu, mother of snails catfish, arowanna, aripama (sp?) in my ultimate freshwater community 300,000 gallon living room/aquarium! Maybe I can just buy a public aquarium? Hmmm.....

MatsP wrote:Obviously, the question in the poll assumes that you mean "normal" home aquaria. There are some members of this forum that knows (or knows of) someone who has a significantly larger than average tank for keeping red-tailed catfish - in the range of tens of thousands of gallons!

But if you count home aquaria as something that would fit in most normal living rooms, then no, you shouldn't keep those in a "home aquaria".

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Mar 2007, 08:10

Moontanman,
behaves like Tatia spp.: it hides during the day and comes out at night.
You might want to try Ageneiosus spp., for instance : these have the looks and are active during the day. Besides, they are more available than Centromochlus. Just my 2 cents.

Moontanman · Post by **Moontanman** » 27 Mar 2007, 02:05

Ageneiosus cf. atronasus comes a little closer but neither fish rates very high on my shark meter. Maybe I expect to much but then again maybe demand will eventually get through to the people who breed iridescent sharks and we'll get a dwarf type or maybe one of it's cousins that really do stay small. One of the best things about the iridescent shark besides it's looks is that it doesn't seem to bother small fishes in it's tank. At least the one I had ignored cardinal tetras and several other small fish. I am quite sure the Ageneiosus sp. wouldn't do this.

Marc van Arc wrote:Moontanman,

Centromochlus heckelii
behaves like Tatia spp.: it hides during the day and comes out at night.
You might want to try Ageneiosus spp., for instance
Ageneiosus vittatus
: these have the looks and are active during the day. Besides, they are more available than Centromochlus. Just my 2 cents.