New corys RARE Corys!

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 19 Mar 2007, 10:02

Well I am new to cory?s, but not to plecos.
A breeder I know has some really rare cory?s (for NZ) and he has offered them to me for $800 (NZD)

Arcuatus x7 WC
Weitzmani x6 WC

His Arcustus are breeding successfully, they are in a community tank and he manages to get 50 fry from them per month. He makes about $500 per month (12EA)

His Weitzmani haven?t bred yet, he has trouble breeding them, but if I can get them going that would be great... As there are 6 (!) in NZ it would be great to boost their numbers:)

But here is my issue. I have kept nothing but BN. How do I house them? What size tank would be good? What filtration and heating would I need, I can?t find the information I need on them!

$800 for them ALL!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 19 Mar 2007, 13:53

Sheesh, make me think one could make a killing smuggling Corys into New Zealand but it would be pretty embarassing and hazardous to one's freedom to get caught doing it.

If you can afford them buy them. There is plenty of information on their care and breeding here on pc.

Both are not hard to keep but you would not be starting off with the easiest of Corys to breed. If the C. arcuatus are spawning successfully then they alone might recoup your investment. I would rate arcuatus as the more difficult of the two.

I have not tried C. arcuatus because they are not expensive or rare in the USA.They are one of the more attractive Corydoras.

Corydoras weitzmani are my latest aquisitions so it is too early to tell when they will breed. I have had ten for only one month and I typically don't have much success with breeding my wild Corydoras during our Summers which where I live will be here soon. I expect that the C. weitzmani will spawn beginnig in October/November if they are anything like my other species. Of course our seasons are opposites between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres.

I have ventured figuratively into the zebra pleco waters so I'm not immune to going for some pricey fish myself.

Post by **Coryman** » 19 Mar 2007, 19:11

C. weitzmani are priced anywhere between £24 and £35 (66.5 - 97.2 NzD) each, so i don't think that you would be paying over the odds, but because a group of Corys are breeding for one person it does not automatically follow that they will breed in a different set up. Having said that C. weitzmani are proving to be very easy to breed so you should soon recoup you investment with those.

Ian

Coryologist · Post by **Coryologist** » 19 Mar 2007, 21:01

apistomaster wrote:Corydoras weitzmani are my latest aquisitions so it is too early to tell when they will breed. I have had ten for only one month and I typically don't have much success with breeding my wild Corydoras during our Summers which where I live will be here soon. I expect that the C. weitzmani will spawn beginnig in October/November if they are anything like my other species. Of course our seasons are opposites between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. - Quote edited by Coryologist

Hi Larry. My C. weitzmani have proven to be year round spawners. They have spawned when my fish room was 65º and 80+º F. I do nothing but feed them and do normally scheduled water changes. They do eat their eggs, so I use a very thick patch of java moss that they can barely squirm into. Every morning when I think they are due, I simply unfurl the JM and look for eggs. If none there, simply retwirl the JM so it's nice and tight and try again, next morning. I'm sure you'll see eggs soon. - Frank

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 20 Mar 2007, 03:55

So what type of tank size and filtration would I need?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Mar 2007, 10:21

10g/60l or thereabouts (I wouldn't be surprised if Ian uses a slightly smaller tank than that, but it's because he's: 1) an expert in the field, and thus got enough experience to see when things are starting to go wrong rather than when it's got a bit late and 2) he's trying to get as many tanks as possible into his fish-room).

Generally, people use air driven sponge filters for Cory breeding tanks. A mid-size, slow-flowing internal filter may also work well.

--
Mats

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 20 Mar 2007, 15:23

Hi coryologist,

When I describe my problems with breeding my Corys in the summer I should make it clear that my fish room will stay at 90dF for a couple of months. I sure that this is the major reason why I don't have success then.

I just bought this house and I am trying to get a new air conditioner in place. Hopefully I wwill be able to maintai the area closer to 80dF.

I have had to give up on killies entirely because of the high temperatures and shifted over to only fish that can withstand the summer heat. I think my Corys are just trying to hang on during the summer and only breed when I am able to use the normal triggers and I am able to work with them at no higher than 80dF.

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 21 Mar 2007, 04:48

So would this be cool?

2x 60x40x20cm (LWH)
1x 30x40x30cm Sump (LWH)

Working off a trickle system and one return pump... What size pump wpuld I want? 500 LPH?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Mar 2007, 09:27

Sump is nice but far from necessary in this case.

You probably don't want a high turnover rate, 500 lph is a bit much if the tank is roughly 50 liter (split by two is still 5x turnover rate - I'd probably aim for something like 2x turnover rate).

--
Mats

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 21 Mar 2007, 19:22

So I should filter them separately? I guess I could do that?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Mar 2007, 20:05

Either method is just fine. As Matt says you don't want so much flow your fish can't rest.
The centalized filteration systems utiizing wet/dry filters really come into their own with use of a large aquarium or a large number of aquariums. Two small tanks can be filtered easily with simple air driven sponge filters and that is a very easy method to employ.

Some aquarists just enjoy the intricacies of engineering complex systems and others prefer to use the simplest possible method. Only you know what camp you fall in.

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 23 Mar 2007, 04:04

Ok ill go simple.

How do you breed cory's? Do they need any type of special season?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 23 Mar 2007, 15:53

I just keep them in groups, do the cool water changes and feed a lot of live worms.

The seasonality I experience is most likely the result of extreme summer heat when my fish are subjected to temps near 90dF which is too warm for them.

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 23 Mar 2007, 20:09

Ok thanks for your help.
What I will do it get the tanks going. My L144 are playing up and have stopped breeding, as the male has left the cave and wont go back in

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 25 Mar 2007, 21:52

went and ordered and payed for 2x2ft tanks. I am wondering though what flow rate should I have?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 25 Mar 2007, 23:41

The flow rate is dependant upon many factors but ultimately limited by the optimum flow of the filter system's biological capacity.
I personally run mine at 4 to 8 tank volumes per hour.
Others recommend as little as one tank volume per hour.
I always over size my filteration systems rather tan going with just barely enough.

If both are on the same system then I would go for about 300gph as my minimum turnover rate.
Calculating the required biofileration area is part art and part science. Less is needed for breeding but if you are growing out fry more is needed. It because of these kinds of variables that I tend to lean toward large capacity filters.
It is how much feed (total ammonia-nitrogenTAN)and the pH of the culture water is used and the weight of the fish that goes into designing a filter system.
Anywhere from 3 to 30 sq. Ft. of Biofiltration media surface area may be needed per pound of fish.
depending on the choice of media and filter design.

One example I have numbers for is the Rena Filstar xP3 is supposed to support 5Lbs. of fish. This filter Pumps 175gph according to published specs.
It uses media with very high surface area to biomedia density.

Obviously this can take some research and thought before choosing the design.

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 26 Mar 2007, 07:40

I think I am going to run each tank separately. I have been talking to the breeder; he tells me that he does water changes strait from the tap. He can get them to lay eggs but is it the chlorine and heavy metals that are doing it?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 27 Mar 2007, 13:23

fat_fish wrote:I think I am going to run each tank separately. I have been talking to the breeder; he tells me that he does water changes strait from the tap. He can get them to lay eggs but is it the chlorine and heavy metals that are doing it?

Chlorine and heavy meatals Doing WHAT? Making them breed or stop them from breeding or? [I presume you're saying that the eggs don't hatch and/or fry don't survive]. Eggs hatching and fry survival is a more complex matter than just contaminants in the water (Chlorine, heavy metals, etc). For example, it's documented [albeit not necessarily in a SCIENTIFIC way] that some corys need particular conditions, particularly soft water and low pH, to get fry development right. [One particular place I read that if the pH/hardness is too high, the eggs will be too hard for the fry to break out of, and thus they don't get out - this is due to the slightly calcerous content of the eggs, which is eroded at low hardness and pH, but doesn't erode at higher levels]. This is of course just ONE EXAMPLE of how the water conditions affect the fry development.

In general, tap-water should be relatively low in heavy metals, so I doubt that's a major factor [New Zealand also isn't exactly an area well-known for it's heavy industry and high levels of polution, which further makes this less likely - unless the breeder is not in NZ of course], but definitely not guaranteed to be free of chlorine. However, removing/neutralizing chlorine is not hard, and unless it's chloramine (ammonia + chlorine), just aerating the water for 24hours will remove the chlorine. Chloramine requires a "dechlorinator" to make it harmless. Whilst chlorine (in either form) will have an effect as an irritant on fish, it's not highly toxic to fish [not even eggs, I believe], but it is toxic to the good bacteria in the biological filtration system, which means that using chlorinated water in large water changes can cause spikes of ammonia/nitrite.

Unless you start messing with water hardness or other parameters of the water, there's really no reason to NOT use tap-water for water-changes. But if you want to have full control over your water quality, you will need to know what's in your water. Depending on where you live, you may then need to use an RO/DI unit to remove hardness and other "stuff" in the water.

--
Mats

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 27 Mar 2007, 22:39

He can get them to breed, but cant hatch the fry? I was thniking that they where getting poisioned from his water changes?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 28 Mar 2007, 10:28

fat_fish wrote:He can get them to breed, but cant hatch the fry? I was thniking that they where getting poisioned from his water changes?

Possible, but it may not be as simple as that. There are many factors in the water parameters that, although not toxic by themselves, have an effect on developing fry.

--
Mats

fat_fish · Post by **fat_fish** » 29 Mar 2007, 10:54

Well good news.
The Weitz have breed and hatched! He has 7 young so far. This is a good sighn, I get all the fry with the purchase so this is cool.