What are these Catfishes?

Matien · Post by **Matien** » 10 Mar 2007, 17:41

Hello,
This is my first post on this forum.
So to introduce myself a bit : I am living in France, and I discovered "Lories" first with some ancistrus.

Now, I keep a couple of fish : L200, ancistrus, L144, L187b, L187a, panaquolus maccus...

So now here is the question I have :
What are the fish below? They are all supposed to come from Colombia.

The ones on the 2 first pictures are sold as "butterfly pleco". They are about 10 in the tank, with a size varying between 9 to 12 cm, at 39 euros each.

The ones on the 3 following pictures are sold as "Panaque Verde". They are 3 in the tank, with a size of about 8-9 cm, at 39 euros each.

What is the correct identification of these fishes (I have the impression that there is 2 different spécies under the name "butterfly pleco")
Are the indicated prices reasonnable?

Thank you in advance,
Matien

xingumike · Post by **xingumike** » 10 Mar 2007, 19:20

Second fish is Panaque sp.(L191)

Persephone · Post by **Persephone** » 10 Mar 2007, 19:40

39 EU is about 52 USD

I paid about 25 USD for my royal but i think i got a good deal. I've read of people paying much more. I'm sorry i cant give you a more location appropriate price quote.

I'd say they are worth 50 bucks

Cristoffer Forssander · Post by **Cristoffer Forssander** » 10 Mar 2007, 20:20

First one; Pehaps L147?

Matien · Post by **Matien** » 11 Mar 2007, 16:45

Hi,

So after looking closely on the pictures I found on the internet, I think that :
picture 1 is Peckoltia Brevis
picture 2 is Peckoltia Oligospila or L008.

L147 for me seems to have more dots, with a smaller size.

What do you think about that?

Matien

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Mar 2007, 12:12

If we assume that the information of country of origin is correct, which I think is reasonable to do [if it's UNKNOWN, that's a different story], then we have a bit of a problem with your ID's:
P. brevis: Rio Purus, Brazil
P. oligospila: Rio Capim/Guama in Para, Brazil.
P. sp L008: Rio Para, Brazil.

I can almost certainly say that neither of those species would be exported out of Colombia, as they are hundreds, if not thousands of kilometers "the wrong side of the border".

There are some Amazon drainages in Colombia, but many of the rivers in Colombia also end up in Rio Orinoco.

L147 is from Rio Meta, which is a tributary of Rio Orinoco. I'd say that's a more likely candidate. They are known to be quite variable in pattern.

There may of course be other "undescribed" species from the same region too.

If you CAN find out which RIVER they came from, that would help.

[That said, if the "L147" in the above came in the same shipment as the L191, then it's possibly from the very upper Amazon region, as Rio Caguan flows into the Amazon (via some other rivers, ending in Rio Japura)].

--
Mats

Matien · Post by **Matien** » 12 Mar 2007, 12:35

Hi,

All the fish on pictures there are indicated to come from Columbia. Unfortunately, my reseller have no idea of which river. He is not the one which manage the importation : he just buy the fish when they are already in France.
Anyway, in the same shipment, he received as well some L128 (about 15 cm), some L200 (Hemiancistrus subviridis of about 8-10 cm), some panaquolus maccus and the L191.

I tryed to identify these "butterfly pleco" (as he called them) just from the pattern, and I knew this may not be correct.

Thank you all for your inputs!
So I will look for more data on L147.

See you soon,
Matien

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Mar 2007, 12:46

P. maccus, H. sp L128 and H. subviridis all come from Rio Orinoco drainage (and are exported only from Colombia due to strict export restrictions in Venezuela), so if we assume that the importer is importing the fish from ONE place, then the case for L147 is definitely strong.

Of course, importers don't necessarily buy from one exporter only. An importer may buy fish from several different exporters, that get their fish from several different places.

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Mats