Need help choosing a pleco

[art-kitten]

Hello everyone,
I am new here and need some help choosing a pleco.

I have 4 juvenile African Clawed Frogs. I have a 40 gallon tank and it is planted. The brown alae is killing me!

I am upgrading my tank to a 55 gallon next week and desperately want to get a Pleco to help with tank cleaning. I think they are awesome looking fish. What kind do you recommend that I get with my ACF's?

I want it to be big enough that the frogs will not eat it but not get so big that I will have to trade it out later. I am sure I will get attached to it as I am my froggies. I would love a species that is a good worker, is good looking hopefully a coloration that will show up against my black sand. My clawed frogs are albinos and they look great against the black.

My ACF's are now a little over an inch long SVL. But they will reach 3-5 inches when they are adults. How much bigger does the Pleco need to be when I introduce him into my tank so he does not have problems. Also, females or males? When can you tell? I probably need a variety with a wider head so the frogs are not tempted to try to eat it. And do you know a good source of finding them if I cannot find one suitable locally?

Also, I don't mind if it is expensive as long as it is the right one.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance for your help

art-kitten

[MatsP]

Brown algae is usually a sign of a newly set up tank.

You can get a pleco to clean it off, BUT:
- if you have a continous problem with algae, you'll need to find out why, because the fish will not "cure" the problem - it will in fact make it worse by adding to the bioload in the tank.
- if it's a temporary problem, you will need to feed the pleco to ensure it stays alive.

Since your frogs will grow to about 5 inches in two years time, you probably need something that either grows quite quickly, or is close to that size already.

Of course, it's not only a question of length, as you mention, the width of the fish is also of importance.

I would say that

Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus

would be one of the better candidates, but it does grow a little too big for a 55g tank (a 55g tank can, according to my way of thinking, only take fish up to about 6-7").

These are captive-bred fish in SE Asia and Florida, so they shouldn't be hard to get hold of. You may have to ask your local shop to get one in, but they should be able to get it.

As to recommendations if you can't get it locally, we'd need to know where in the world you live to be able to tell you that - if you click on "Profile" at the top right of the page, you can set your "Location" to indicate where you live, and that would help a whole lot... [And you'd be obiding by the rules of the forum too!]

--
Mats

[art-kitten]

Thanks Mats,
Do you think an albino bn or a pair of them would be good?
I'm in LA.

Thanks for the advice,
IR

[wrasse]

Agree with Mats re - the brown algae..... just scrape it off and syphon it out.

Re - the fish, if you like albinos how about an albino ancistrus?

I don't know much about your clawed frogs, but if they are anything like common frogs that live in the pond - during the mating season they grab anything that moves. Sometimes goldfish are suffocated when an amorous frog has latched on to it. I reckon your new pleco won't be too keen.....

[MatsP]

I think albino bristlenose (Ancistrus sp) are a bit too small to be guaranteed to not become food. If you think Ancistrus sp is a good idea, then I would recommend the normal coloured ones, simply because that gives the better chance of avoiding being seen as food - the albino ones are quite visible, and the frogs are more likely to eat something they can see than something they can't - many frogs are VISUAL hunters...

I still think G. joselimaianus is a better choice based on the fact that it grows to about twice the size of common Ancistrus species - of course, if you can find a LARGE

Ancistrus triradiatus[/clog, then that could be an option - I think Shane said that he's seen ones that are around 8-9" long!

--
Mats

[art-kitten]

The following is a quote from an article from this site about plecos and plants:

The final group contains loricariids that have no business in any planted tank. These are plecos that eat plants, dig, have enough mass to flatten plantings, or will not thrive in the conditions necessary for a planted aquarium. Nearly all Hypostomus and Glyptopterichthys (sailfin plecos) get big and will eat plants.

I am worried about that sail fin too. Yes, my frogs may try and latch on and mate with them when they are in amplexus and hurt themselves.

So the ancistrus is a good choice. I really liked the fact you would be able to see the albino's in my tank but since my frogs are albino too I can see them being attracted to the albinos to eat or mate with.

I found some L144 long fin albino bushy nose ancistrus with blue eyes. Wow, they are gorgeous. They are only 2" right now and I am not sure that is big enough. My frogs are still smaller than that but they may grow faster. The breeder has some 3" regular albino bushy nose plecos. May be better but....the color will attract my froggies.

Darn!

Thanks for your help,
AK

[MatsP]

"Long fin" L144 aren't "Real" L144 - they are indeed the same genetic condition, but "true" L144 all stem from a single male exported out of Colombia (I think), and I don't think they have ever been for sale in the US. I'm personally not very fond of the long-fin varieties of Bristlenose - they look clumsy to me.

I don't think Albinos will be more attracted to Albinos than to regulars. They probably aren't aware that they are different.

Brown coloured ones are better because they will blend into the background better, so the frogs will be less likely to see them and thus hunt them.

If you feed the Pterygoplichthys (as they are now called) species properly, they have no real reason to eat plants (but they eat A LOT - a friend of mine has 4 of them in a 125g tank, and they go through about half a courgette(zucchini) or cucumber per day).

I suggested the

Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus

because it's one of the smaller in the group, but it grows a fair bit larger than the bristlenoses, and thus should be safe from the frogs.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

African clawed frogs do eat fish, but catfishes are perfectly safe, even small ones.

I've kept them for years and I've kept amphibians with Ancistrus wich are far worse than adult Xenopus laevis.

I'm talking about adult fully grown 10" Axolotls.
NOTHING is as nasty as a fully grown Axolotl when it comes to harassing speciesmembers or other tankmates. ripping off a leg, fin or entire tail is just for starters.
mine chewed up 2 Australian Yabby's last week.....and those lobsters were of a size so I thought they'd be safe.

wrong.....

As soon as the lobsters had to molt the Axolotls chewed them up like wet paper. amazing....

I've kept Ancistrus in with them and these were pristine, not a finpiece missing!

they hate to chew on spiny, prickly hard objects. the mouth of a Clawed frog is like the mouth of an Axolotl, but smaller. lots of jawpower but little teeth. a strong rubbery grip.

And also: Ancistrus are up and running when the frogs wander through the tank for food. when the cats are approached all the spines come out and after a few bumps with a bristle of the opercular spines or the prickly pectorals, they learn fast that this unedable evil thing is not for food.

but longfins are the worst choice, because these have fins wich are far more fragile than the regular Ancistrus.

also, longfin Ancistrus can't swim properly; they make the water move like they're a fish in trouble! a perfect trigger for any piscivore to go in attack-mode......
That's why longfinned fish of any kind often are attacked by tankmates, even tankmates wich have a nice reputation.

longfinned fish are like surfers to a shark....it floats like a dead seal, it looks like a dead seal, it can't swim properly, so it's likely a dead seal. let's check it out and taste a bit with my 1 ton per square inch teeth and see if it actually IS a dead seal.....

sitting ducks.

Mats, I've tought for a long time that the joselimaianus was a fair bit smaller than the common or the gibby.
however, I've seen a 40-45cm (16-18") specimen quite recently in a LFS, and had to look twice...
is that a gibby? uh oh, nope, red spots not a red 'net', so it's the L001.....and very strong built as well. I thought these would grow to 25-30cm or so (10-12"), boy was I ever wrong....

[art-kitten]

Sidguppy,
You think it would be just fine to put a pair of 3" BN ancistrus with my 4 juvenille ACF's (Xenopus laevis) now?

Are you in agreement with Mats about staying away from the albino color? I have located 2 of the albino's that I can get now. I have not been able to locate the brown ones as of yet.

And do you reccommend keeping them in a pair of a single BN? I don't expect them to spawn but I thought it would be more comforting for the pleco if it shared the tank with one more of it's kind. I also hear they poop a lot. My frogs live on the bottom. Will this bother them?

Thanks so much!



A-K

[MatsP]

Sidguppy obviously knows a fair bit more about amphibians than I do - and their potential for eating Ancistrus.

Since (from what Sidguppy says) the deterrent in Ancistrus (Bristelnose's genus) are spiky and spiny (try holding one by the tail, and watch the spines come out at the side of the head - you understand perfectly why no creature would like to swollow one of those head first - and tail-first isn't any better due to fins and body armour being designed to stop that - just stroke it gently back-to-front and you'll see what I mean.)

So, as long as you stay away from long-fins, you should be fine.

These fish aren't really social - two males will fight if they get too close, and a mixed sex pair will only get together when they spawn, so they won't "comfort each other".

They aren't agressively anti-social either, so you can keep multiples of them in a mid-sized tank, as long as they have a few hiding places to choose from.

So what I'm saying is: You can keep one and it will be fine, or you can keep a few if you wish.

A male and a female will most likely spawn. It's unlikely that there will be any surviving babies tho', as the frogs will find those babies sufficiently soft to eat (a bit like we would find gooseberries a bit prickly, but not like the outer sheel of a chestnut, which is probably what I'd say the adult bristlenose would be like).

--
Mats