Pictus Cats - Totally confused & worried

cats4me · Post by **cats4me** » 23 Feb 2007, 20:37

Hi there..I am new to this forum but have seen so many helpful people here so I hope I can receive some too

I purchased 2 pictus cats (about 21/2-3in)and within 48hrs they both died! I then returned to the store & was given 2 more - again 42hrs dead!! The first pair were caught with nets - big no no!, Second pair were tackled by 2 store reps with cups & nets!
My water tests perfect, my tank has cycled. I have asked at other stores and most confirm that the fish were stressed beyond stress & possible reason for death or bad shipment (store actually had 6 but 2 died in shipping).

I have since purchased 4 more directly off the truck when they arrived at the store, they seem to be way happier- they all ended up with huge bellies after 1st feeding of blood worms. I continue to monitor my water daily, no ammonia, no nitrates. These 4 did not go crazy in the tank when they first were put in, they immediately took to my coral and hide under it during daylight hours.

I have read so many different comments on these fish - they are hardy, prone to ich as are scaleless, happier in bigger groups than 2. I've also seen on some sites that they demand perfect water but other places state they come from muddy waters?? I am very confused and cannot stand to loose these guys. Any suggestions as to what happened or what to check?
These guys are my all time favorite!! Such personalities, love them whiskers!!

Thanks for any help at all

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Feb 2007, 21:55

they immediately took to my coral

That may be your problem. Coral is going to make your water harder than pictus would like.

courtnee · Post by **courtnee** » 23 Feb 2007, 23:01

I agree with Silurus. Before I read Silurus's post I was going to ask about PH. I keep pictus cats and have posted previously that yes many stores and sites claim they are hardy but I disagree with that.

I find they are not so hardy in the PH area. Many say steady PH is better then a PH that is not steady. That fish will adapt. My tanks sat at 8 and my pictus would not adapt. My tank was cycled and fine except a high PH.

It wasnt until I got my PH down to 7 I could keep them alive. I have for months now with a lower PH.

What size tank and what ph are you at?

cats4me · Post by **cats4me** » 23 Feb 2007, 23:41

Thanks for replies

Right now they are in my 33 gal. soon to move to my 55. I should have been more specific, the coral is a fake.

PH is around 7.6-7.4 according to my test/card.

courtnee · Post by **courtnee** » 24 Feb 2007, 13:11

That is a good size for them for now.... in time though as you are aware you will need that 55gl

I suggest lowering your PH. I use a powder neutral 7.0 and some bottled water. I am on a schedule and keep mine right at 7.0. I know people are against adding things but ya know with a PH of 8 I gotta do what I gotta do to get it down because my fish didnt tolerate it.

Also a huge swing in PH from the fish store to you is also a concern. They are stressed already from the shipping and then going home, ph is a water change for them... etc.

Every pictus I have gotten, even the healthy ones I have managed to keep now have stressed. They stress pretty easy. They will swim up and down a lot on the side of the tank until they settle.

This isnt such a bad thing, you will know when something is wrong they tell you through their change in behavior. I did a PWC and was off 5 degrees and one of mine FLIPPED OUT he told me just what he thought about that. lol

When yours died what happened? Show of stress? Any film on their skin?

Hope these new 4 you got hang in there! Pictus are so much fun to own. I love it.

cats4me · Post by **cats4me** » 24 Feb 2007, 19:17

The ones that died show some stress up & down my tank, actually right from the time they got home. They settled a little on the bottom for one night and then just started swimming like mad again & shortly after they were floating

I know they need the bigger tank and I actually got them into it lastnight...way more room for them. I set up the 55 pretty much the same as 33 so most things would be similar for them. The 4 were a little stressed this morning but last night went straight into their corner beneath the fake coral.

On the other hand my 4 line striped pictus loves it!! He was temporarily housed in my 10 gallon....but he is having swimming fun from one end to the other & then hides in his log.

I hope they do ok too, keeping close eye on them and everything in the water. They are still eating like pigs (which the others that died didn't) so I am hoping that is a good sign too

Thanks for all your help

courtnee · Post by **courtnee** » 24 Feb 2007, 22:22

Ohhh you have a four line pictus too? How many do you have of each?

I have 2 four-line pictus cats and 2 spotted pictus cats.

My spotted pictus are petty small they are growing slow. I dont see much diff. from when I bought them back in November.

However, my little four-line I bough just back in Nov is HUGE now. Everytime I see her I am shocked. Her mouth has gotten so big and her face. She peeks out at me from under her hiding spot and watches me LOL I dont see her come out much but when I do I am amazed at her growth. She has doubled in size since Nov. Slowing down some but I hear you on pigs. My four-lines eat like mad compared to the spotted pictus.

My other four-line has grown a ton since Dec when I got him. He is slowing down some too but he is about 6" now.

I have mine in a 55g and it is perfect for now. If these fourlines keep growing though like they are a new tank is gonna be coming. They are my babies and I spoil them

I have noticed though having 4 pictus cats and I feel most of the mess comes from my four-lines as they are bigger. I have to gravel vac once a week and I do a 50% PWC to keep my tank in top conditions. Where the four-lines sit has a lot of poo that needs cleaned up. LOL The pleco is messy too.

Right now in my 55gl I have
2 spotted pictus
2 four line pictus
8 serpae tetra (love these fish)
8 white skirt tetra
3 bleeding heart tetra
4 glass tetra
1 common pleco that is very small yet
1 apple snail
1 tiny black snail

What do you have?

I am so addicted to pictus cats I want to upgrade to a 125gl and get more LOL

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 24 Feb 2007, 22:24

How can you reduce the Ph by adding things?

courtnee · Post by **courtnee** » 24 Feb 2007, 22:26

I forgot to ask. It seems you know about the cycle in tanks etc. How did you cycle your fish tanks? How did the 55gl cycle while the pictus were not in it? Did you have other fish in it?

Also do you have a liquid test kit for ammonia. The biggest concern I would worry about is making sure there is not an ammonia spike in the tank.

courtnee · Post by **courtnee** » 24 Feb 2007, 22:32

grokefish wrote:How can you reduce the Ph by adding things?

I use Neutral Regulator from Seachem and have liked the results. I mix the powder into a cup of tank water and mix it well and add it into my tank right every other PWC and my tank stays at a constant PH.

My tap water is over PH 8 and liquid rock if I dont do something. Snails love it but my pictus catfish do not. I at times use bottled water too but doing 50% PWC on a 55gl tank it is hard to afford that much bottled water.

I have made a healthy balance using Neutral Regulator from Seachem to keep my ph at 7 and add liquid calcium everyday for my snails to have good shell growth and it works out perfect for us.

When I first setup my 55gl tank and before I bought the Neutral Regulator my PH was off the charts. The test tube was so dark blue. The LFS even told me I had to get it down before they would give me my pictus cats. LOL They showed me Neutral Regulator and I put some in and came back a few days later with a PH still off the charts. I ended up having to triple dose my tank at one time, a few days later adding even more. (had no fish in it at the time and doing a fishless cycle)

I finally got it down, and now keeping on my schedule I can keep my PH down to 7 with just adding it every 2 weeks. This has worked for several months.

cats4me · Post by **cats4me** » 25 Feb 2007, 00:26

I have 4 spotted pictus & only 1 striped which is much bigger than my spotted ones.

I use a liquid test for ammonia, nitrates - and am a little over obsessed I've been told as I do it in the morning and evening every day..lol

I had my 10 gallon with 4 white clouds & 2 small angels to complete the cycle on that tank - everything went well, almost too well maybe.

My 33 was my nightmare, it cycled well as it was given to me (that was fun moving all that water with). It was given to me with a pleco, 8in bala, and 3in clown loach. The previous owners lost other fish in tank due to ich. It was to have been all ok when I got it. Well, the bala already had cloudy eyes when I got him - It was a shame really, he ended up with septicmia - he didn't make it through the treatments, which in turn the loach didn't survive either. So that being said I was put on a very fastrack to learning everything quick!

I got the tank under control and back to normal, and then added the spotted pictus.

I somewhat cheated with cycling my 55 as it has just been set up - I transferred all water, gravel & even running a second filter (new & 33 gal filter) to have as much of the good needed to avoid new tank syndrome. So it has not really completed a full cycle on its own yet, thus the reason I check water twice a day. My 4-line loves this new tank and seems to have accepted all his extra space quite well...spotted ones are adapting with a little stress from one of them, otherwise they are good

I have right now though in 55 - 4 spotted pictus, 1 - 4 line pictus, 4 white clouds, pleco, 1 2inch bala.

Oh I tested my PH again today with a different liquid test that the store I usually go to uses and it is sitting at 7.4 - hopefully this is more acceptable and getting closer to 7 for those cats!

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 26 Feb 2007, 12:20

courtnee wrote:
grokefish wrote:How can you reduce the Ph by adding things?
I use Neutral Regulator from Seachem and have liked the results. I mix the powder into a cup of tank water and mix it well and add it into my tank right every other PWC and my tank stays at a constant PH.

My tap water is over PH 8 and liquid rock if I dont do something. Snails love it but my pictus catfish do not. I at times use bottled water too but doing 50% PWC on a 55gl tank it is hard to afford that much bottled water.

I have made a healthy balance using Neutral Regulator from Seachem to keep my ph at 7 and add liquid calcium everyday for my snails to have good shell growth and it works out perfect for us.

When I first setup my 55gl tank and before I bought the Neutral Regulator my PH was off the charts. The test tube was so dark blue. The LFS even told me I had to get it down before they would give me my pictus cats. LOL They showed me Neutral Regulator and I put some in and came back a few days later with a PH still off the charts. I ended up having to triple dose my tank at one time, a few days later adding even more. (had no fish in it at the time and doing a fishless cycle)

I finally got it down, and now keeping on my schedule I can keep my PH down to 7 with just adding it every 2 weeks. This has worked for several months.

Whilst I'm sure the neutral-regulator does what it should, I doubt that you need to add calcium in your water, as there should be PLENTY of that in the water already if it's that high pH (unless your alkalinity comes frome something else).

However, I personally think that pH regulation is best done by removing the offending matter (in the case of alkaline water, the calcium ions that make the water hard and alkaline). Adding "more" to the water is almost certainly making things worse for soft-water loving fish like P. pictus.

The reason for my saying so is:
The pH regulator will contain a buffering compound of some sort. These are almost always some form of salt, which means that you're actually adding more ions to the water. Soft water is called soft because it contains very little ions.

On the other hand, I kept my P. pictus in normal southern English tap-water (hard and alkaline) for quite some time, and they weren't unhappy with that...

And as to Grokefish's comment: If you add hydrochloric acid to the water, wouldn't that lower the pH?

--
Mats

courtnee · Post by **courtnee** » 26 Feb 2007, 13:45

The snail's shells start to get pinholes and show signs of lack of calcium. Adding calcium for snails is pretty common.

If I add one cap full of liquid calcium a day my snails shells do not get pin holes or weaken. With out their shells get horrid.

Snails like PH 8ish, I keep my tank at 7ish. It is a must really for me. Not enough in the water for the snails. I do not add enough however to really change my water, just enough for the snails to have healthy shells.

I would have to disagree. I know from my tank and my ph and my snails that if I dont add liquid calcium their shells go down hill.

Also I know people to keep pictus cats in higher PH but I had no luck at all with it. They all died and I went through at least 6 of them.

I still use the same water, just a much lower PH.