Out and about in S. Africa

Post by **Shane** » 24 Dec 2006, 11:09

If I could find one fault with this book, it would be that common fish names are only provided in Afrikans. This seems a glaring oversight given that Afrikaners make up only a small percentage of the population of the areas covered.

The above is from my review of the Freshwater Fishes of Southern Africa.

I mistook the tone of your comment as a snide remark on the "small minority" who speak Afrikaans.

Just to clear the air on this. The book in question covers all of Southern Africa, an area encompassing 14 countries. Afrikans is a language spoken by a minority of people in one of the 14 countries covered. The decision of the author to only provide common names in Afrikans seems a fault to me. Two of the covered countries (Angola and Mozambique) are Portugese speaking. What good do Afrikaner common names do for a scientist working in Malawi? I would have made the same observation if a book about South American fishes only provided French common names. Sure they would be useful in French Guiana, but not in Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guayana, or anywhere else.
-Shane

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 24 Dec 2006, 11:09

MatsP wrote:Looks like a nice fish - and a new entry for the Cat-eLog.

has arrived!

Jools

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 24 Dec 2006, 11:24

Shane wrote:
If I could find one fault with this book, it would be that common fish names are only provided in Afrikans. This seems a glaring oversight given that Afrikaners make up only a small percentage of the population of the areas covered.
The above is from my review of the Freshwater Fishes of Southern Africa.

I mistook the tone of your comment as a snide remark on the "small minority" who speak Afrikaans.
Just to clear the air on this. The book in question covers all of Southern Africa, an area encompassing 14 countries. Afrikans is a language spoken by a minority of people in one of the 14 countries covered. The decision of the author to only provide common names in Afrikans seems a fault to me. Two of the covered countries (Angola and Mozambique) are Portugese speaking. What good do Afrikaner common names do for a scientist working in Malawi? I would have made the same observation if a book about South American fishes only provided French common names. Sure they would be useful in French Guiana, but not in Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guayana, or anywhere else.
-Shane

I understand this and replied regarding this matter to you via a second PM. Since the forum went offline the day after my second PM I am not sure if you got it...

I was reacting to Jool's original posting, and apologised for being over sensitive.

Did you get my PM in reply to yours?

Also, did you note my question on your collection papers? If you have the correct papers no probs, but if you don't on SAFF there is the contact details of someone at DNC who would be able to assist you.

Unfortunately it seems that DNC is a bit behind the times where Fiskeeping is concerned, I find it exciting that SA fish could possibly make it into the hobby.

Another stubling block to collecting fish is that it is illegal to use nets in inland waters. It sucks, I once got into trouble for using a scoop net at a dam, even though I had the correct fishing licence.

Again, I apologise for my attitude regarding the perception of Afrikaans speaking people, I guess I did nothing to shed a positive light in that regard.

Back to the matter at hand, hows about letting me tag along on one of your catfish expeditions?

cmon, hows about it? ;D

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 24 Dec 2006, 15:41

Shane wrote:
These temperature swings are quite interesting to me. I try so hard to keep my tanks at home at one consistant temperature, day and night. It seems, in nature, temperatures vary quite a bit. I wonder how this translates(if at all) into the home aquarium setting? I realize certain temperature fluctuations in a confined, home aquarium could lead to illness. But, this does raise interesting questions about temperature change, over time for breeding. It would seem no species lives in a "static" setting. Are we too obsessed with the temperature staying the same? I'm probably asking a rhetorical "why is the sky blue" question...
Amanda,
The bottom line is that this is a"it depends" question. Amazonian fishes may never see a difference of more than a few degrees F over the course of an entire year. Llanos fishes may see swings of 10F over the course of the year as can piedmont spp like Chaetostoma. Temp changes are very often related to spawning behavior, which is one reason why we have such great luck spawning fishes after a big, cool water change.
Now that said, an aquarium is a "snapshot" of nature. Real rivers, creeks and lakes are dynamic. Temps, chemistry, amount of light, amount of food, etc all fluctuate by the day, week, and month.
An aquarium is a glass box full of water. It has the same temp, amount of light, duration of light, food available, etc. The other big difference is that we rarely keep all fishes from the exact same river. We need stability in the aquarium because we are often after a happy medium for all involved rather than replicating a very specific habitat over the course of a year.
-Shane

Thank you so much for the input, Shane! I've often wondered about this. Nature isn't static with temperature. If we go back a step, would it be the light(sunrise/sunset and seasons in some areas) that dictates the temperature changes and also pH changes? This gives me another insight into why some species may be more difficult to breed than others. It's a lot to think about.
Amanda

Post by **Shane** » 26 Dec 2006, 08:31

Did you get my PM in reply to yours?

Yes, I got your PM. I wanted to lay out my reasoning for the comment in public. You may have been the only one to raise it directly with me, but that probably means ten other people had the same thought as you and just did not take time to write me.
Contact me via e-mail (shane@planetcatfish.com) and we can talk about collecting. Thanks again,
-Shane

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 26 Dec 2006, 09:30

bronzefry wrote:Thank you so much for the input, Shane! I've often wondered about this. Nature isn't static with temperature. If we go back a step, would it be the light(sunrise/sunset and seasons in some areas) that dictates the temperature changes and also pH changes? This gives me another insight into why some species may be more difficult to breed than others. It's a lot to think about.
Amanda

Personally, I do feel things like duration of the day will be important. at school I learned that European bird can easily be tricked into laying eggs in winter - just expand the daylength sufficiently.

I have quite a few fishes I collected myslef last January in Uruguay. This country is between 30 and 35 degrees south of the equator, so they must be facing considerable differences in day length (comparable with south Portugal). Therefore they now have 9.5 hrs of light in their tanks, and this will increase in due time again.

Ragarding pH changes, pH in water is hugely related to CO2 (which will not change much during a year, as it is always available) and organic matter in water. Those in temperate climatezones will yearly note the falling of leaves from trees, which will reesult in more acidic waters. A pH drop might be what European fish need to know winter is coming - I do not know.

However, as I collectes my fishes myself, I knbowe their habitats were not shadowed by trees, so they will not need (or like) a pH drop.

Thus, it wil ldepend on where a fish comes from.

I wrote fish, because I think alls fishes in the same water will - ideally - require the same circumstances.

Bas

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 29 Dec 2006, 13:57

This is so much to think about! Once we take any species out of its environment, it's going to be difficult to replicate that natural environment in a glass box. I think this also shows us how adaptable many fish species are.

Amanda

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 29 Dec 2006, 15:27

And the size of the tank also plays a role, the larger the slower unwanted changes are the better, but a larger tank also means more work for "wanted" changes like simulated rainfall...

Post by **Shane** » 08 Jan 2007, 07:41

OK, Shane and Jools here. We've been out collecting for the last three days. We've visited the Olifants, Sabie and Crocodile rivers, here are some pics...

(I think) from the Olifants River.

Shane holding a tank containing newly collected .

Barbs and very small from the Sabie river. These were collected in overhanging (fern) vegetation at the river side.

The were collected in the white water section of this section of the Crocodile River.

Collecting in the same section of the Crocodile.

Jools under a tree in Africa (with Shane's wheels).

Jools & Shane

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 08 Jan 2007, 09:40

Whoah...

Did you keep that Clarias? Wow he's a beaut!

Did you go for pancakes in Sabie?

Have fun!

Q

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 08 Jan 2007, 13:06

I hope you two plan on writing a book at some point about your travels...

Amanda

Post by **Shane** » 10 Jan 2007, 15:51

Did you keep that Clarias? Wow he's a beaut!

Did you go for pancakes in Sabie?

Q,
The Clarias was released just after the photo was taken. We passed the pancake place in Sabie but did not have time to stop as it was just after 7:00am and we were starting our day looking for collecting locales.

Amanda,
I hope you will be happy with just an article.

On the Jools/Shane trivia side, this trip made for the fourth continent Jools and I have met up on (N. America, S. America, Europe, and Africa) and the third where we have collected together. If only I had been able to make the India trip with Silurus!
-Shane

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 10 Jan 2007, 20:04

Dang, he was a nice specimen, but they DO grow big...

A local petshop sells Albino ones for R150.00 to keep in koi ponds...

You missed the best pancakes ever!

Regards

Q

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Jan 2007, 12:05

Bas Pels wrote:
bronzefry wrote:Thank you so much for the input, Shane! I've often wondered about this. Nature isn't static with temperature. If we go back a step, would it be the light(sunrise/sunset and seasons in some areas) that dictates the temperature changes and also pH changes? This gives me another insight into why some species may be more difficult to breed than others. It's a lot to think about.
Amanda
Personally, I do feel things like duration of the day will be important. at school I learned that European bird can easily be tricked into laying eggs in winter - just expand the daylength sufficiently.

I have quite a few fishes I collected myslef last January in Uruguay. This country is between 30 and 35 degrees south of the equator, so they must be facing considerable differences in day length (comparable with south Portugal). Therefore they now have 9.5 hrs of light in their tanks, and this will increase in due time again.

Ragarding pH changes, pH in water is hugely related to CO2 (which will not change much during a year, as it is always available) and organic matter in water. Those in temperate climatezones will yearly note the falling of leaves from trees, which will reesult in more acidic waters. A pH drop might be what European fish need to know winter is coming - I do not know.

However, as I collectes my fishes myself, I knbowe their habitats were not shadowed by trees, so they will not need (or like) a pH drop.

Thus, it wil ldepend on where a fish comes from.

I wrote fish, because I think alls fishes in the same water will - ideally - require the same circumstances.

Bas

Just to further this discussion:
pH will also be affected by rainfall, as any accumulated pH-changing substance (acidic from detritus, leaves or otherwise or alkaline from minerals) in the water will be dilured by the "pure" rainwater, pushing/pulling towards the neutral pH 7.

I wouldn't be surprised if temperature has a large effect on determining the season, compared to the rather randomness of the pH changes (random, as in some rivers/lakes will have a large change of pH due to for example leaves falling into the river, whilst others will have no or little change from the same due to lack of trees near the body of water).

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:30

Shane wrote:
Did you keep that Clarias? Wow he's a beaut!

Did you go for pancakes in Sabie?
Q,
The Clarias was released just after the photo was taken. We passed the pancake place in Sabie but did not have time to stop as it was just after 7:00am and we were starting our day looking for collecting locales.

Amanda,
I hope you will be happy with just an article.

On the Jools/Shane trivia side, this trip made for the fourth continent Jools and I have met up on (N. America, S. America, Europe, and Africa) and the third where we have collected together. If only I had been able to make the India trip with Silurus!
-Shane

An article would be wonderful, Shane!

I saw something about the lifecycles in the Andes Mountains. The "seasons" of "winter" and "summer" occur in a 24 hour period. The animals that survive in this climate are adapted to these severe and manic climate changes. Quite nifty creatures.
Amanda

Post by **Shane** » 18 Feb 2007, 18:45

Back and rested after a fun day of collecting with Catfishluvva (aka Q). We headed north shortly after 0730 this am in search of rare and exciting fishes. We headed north on the N1 out of Guateng Provence to the 33 in Northern province and traveled northwest. This area was formally better known as the Transvaal and Q described it as "bushveld." It was basically rolling hills covered with small bushes and tress. The Waterberg ridge is in this area and we decided to check out the tributaries of the Mokolo river running down from the Waterberg.

The first river we came across, several km NW of Nylstroom, was the Starkstroom and it was a beauty.

The Starkstroom is a typical Highveld river with a substrate of red rocks and boulders over sand. What made it atypical was that it was very clear and unpolluted. The day was hot (How hot, Africa hot!), but the river was refreshing in the upper 70s and teeming with life. I have to admit that this was some of the easiest collecting I have ever done. Thew fishes there had probably never seen a net before and showed no fear of us nor our collecting gear. In fact, it was possible to just stand in the river and collect loads of fishes with our 4' X 4' seines without moving more than a few steps. I do not want to say that African fishes are less smart than any others, but these guys swam into the net just to check it out!

Close up of Starkstroom

We collected several spp with the following being the most notable: Barbus bifrentaus, B. viviparus, the killie Aplocheilichthys johnstoni and the tetra Micralests acutidens.

I was very excited by the B. bifrenatus, which is a beatutiful fish. We collected groups of the above spp and all made it home except the tetras. This seems to be a very sensitive sp and all we collected perished on the trip home.

B. bifrenatus on top and the killies on the bottom.

We left the Starkstroom and then got a bit turned around in the Bushveld and spent several hours on dirt roads. On the positive side, we dodged several hundred baboons that were crossing the road along the way and came across kudu, impala, gnu, and several other interesting animals.

Eventually we ended up at the Crocodile River just outside Thabazimbi. The dam upriver at Hartbeespoort must have been closed as the river had dried up a lot and was really a series of (barely) interconnected pools. Collecting here was also very easy, but the fishes were not interesting, the water was very hot (over 90F), and did not smell so good. What was interesting were the aquatic plants. We collected what looks to an African Crypt-type plant as well as some floating plants for my pond.

A group of local men were collecting with a large seine and were pulling up large carp, Tilapia, and a few small Clarias.

Given the poor water conditions and that it was getting late in the day we decided to start our drive home. Q and I both agreed that we should have stayed and worked Starkstroom much longer than we did. Oh well, I guess we will have something to do next weekend.
-Shane

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 19 Feb 2007, 12:10

Those barbs and killies do look nice, but what is the fish with the vertical stripes, reflected in the left side of the photo tank?

Thanks for sharing the story, good stuff.

Post by **Shane** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:00

Just a cichlid. Most likely the fry of Tilapia rendalli. Probably the most attractive cichlid in my range, but reaches 400 mm and 1.8 kg. It can survive temps from 11-37C and even tolerate brackish waters. Like most cichlids, it spawns if you keep a pair in a damp washcloth overnight.
-Shane

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:46

Hoi, yeah, this was fun! My first serious collecting trip, and time well spent with the master.

Shane forgot to mention the Juvie crock we saw and the spider that decided to use the Landy as a nest, or was it we who parked smack in the middle of the web?

I took home two male and one Female killy, and this morning the female was dragging a single (very) large egg around on a thread hanging from her abdomen.

I want to say "anal opening" but somehow that seems inappropriate.

Anyhow, she deposited the egg carefully on a plant, clear as glass, I can see the embryo developing inside, and big, bigger than a cory egg. It seems they spawn once a day, since through her semi transluscent abdomen I can see another egg developing. Maybe the higher temps in the quarantine tank triggered egg producion...

The water in the Sterkspruit is crystal clear and seems to be very high in o2, I am sure with some digging we shall find a catfish of sorts next time out!

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 21 Feb 2007, 15:53

That first collecting spot was a beauty. What are the seasons like in the area where you collected(the first set of photos)? Was that considered like a "dry season" or is it like that all the time? I'm not familiar with the seasons in this area of the world. Can you please educate me?
Thanks,
Amanda

Post by **Shane** » 22 Feb 2007, 17:47

Amanda,
There are basically two seasons here: winter and summer. Winter is more or less late March to early November and is cooler and very dry. Summer, which we are in now, is much warmer with fair rains maybe 1-2 times a week and lightening storms. Humidity is low despite the rains.
This place does not have the temperature stability you get in South America where the temp between day and night might change by 1-2 degrees. Our high tomorrow is predicted at 36C (almost 97F) dropping to 17C (62F) at night! The fishes here can take some serious temp changes that most "tropicals" could not. I would compare the seasons pretty closely to those of central California, but happening at opposite times of the year. The strangest thing to me is that because the seasons are reversed, kids here take summer vacation during Xmas in December.
-Shane

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 22 Feb 2007, 21:26

Thanks, Shane. I was wondering about that. Some of my Killie friends from my fish club would go crazy!

Amanda

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 24 Feb 2007, 15:59

Well Shane is *almost* completely correct, impressive as he is an Africa NOOB harhar *ducks*.

OFFICIALLY our seasons are thus: 1 Nov - 1 Mar: Summer, temperature wise it can vary depending on ElNino etc.

1 Mar - 1 May: Autumn.

1 May - 1 Sept: Winter

1 Sept - 1 Nov: Spring

1 Sept is SPRING DAY!!! but it is either the coldest or hottest day of the year.

Also, where we collected the killies is in an area known as BUSHVELD, nice and hot in that area, but go further north and you get areas where it could reach 30celsius during the day, and drop to almost freezing at night, and very cold and dry winters.

In pretoria where we live, it is nice and cool most days, but one week per year we average between 37 - 40c, but that week could fall anytime during the year, but mostly end of Feb, like this year.

Go south 50km, and you get Johannesburg and the savannah. Savannah in SA is normally featureless grassland, think steppe.

Here it seldom reaches 33c, and once every few years you get snow in Johannesburg, usually during September or October, spring snow, very strange.

Go west, and you get Northen Province, and further on Namibia, very hot and dry.

Go east, you get Lowveld (Mpumalanga provence, cold in the Highveld closest to Pretoria, and Hot and humid in the lowveld closest to Mozambique) Tropical temps and climate there.

Go south from the Lowveld you get Natal, which houses the only blackwater rivers in South Africa I know of, the Pongola, Umhloti and Amanzimtoti rivers. Some of them have brackish waters for quite a few km's inland, and you can catch Zambezi sharks 30km from the coast, inland that is.

The Cape is a mix of desert and Meditiranian climes, and Cape Town has winter rainfall, as opposed to the rest of the country that has Summer Rainfall.

Here is a google earth snap of the area where shane took the picture of the locals fishing.

The picture is crappy but if you look just north of the white patch you will see where the road crosses the crocodile river. We snapped the guys just up-river from the bridge.

I'll check later if I can find the place we collected the killies...

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 24 Feb 2007, 17:18

CAtfishluvva wrote:Shane forgot to mention the Juvie crock we saw

No point in mentioning what you don't find in your net.

It's an in-joke between Shane and I - I caught a caiman in a one man hand seine once. Shane still kids me that I was heard to shriek like a young girl!

Jools

CAtfishluvva · Post by **CAtfishluvva** » 24 Feb 2007, 18:16

Oh he told me the story...

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 25 Feb 2007, 15:34

Jools wrote:
CAtfishluvva wrote:Shane forgot to mention the Juvie crock we saw
No point in mentioning what you don't find in your net. It's an in-joke between Shane and I - I caught a caiman in a one man hand seine once. Shane still kids me that I was heard to shriek like a young girl!

Jools

I still shreik if I find a mouse in the house.

Thank you for the info on your climate, Catfishluvva. I like learning about how the rest of the world lives.

Amanda