Will high summer temps be a problem for cories?

snail · Post by **snail** » 16 Feb 2007, 14:38

As you may have seen from other posts I am planning on getting my first cories soon.

One concern I have is that the summer gets hot here in Portugal and I know cories don't much like high temps. Do you think this will be a problem? I have read that some varieties such as sterbai are more tolerent of higher temps, is this true?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Feb 2007, 14:51

Yes, C. sterbai is happy up to at least 28'C.

Other cories range from "being unhappy at 25'C" to "can be held short term at 28-30'C", depending on the species.

Check the Cat-eLog (search works now, so http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/search.php is a starting point - just enter "Callichtyidae" and "Corydoras" in the Family/genus drop-downs, and set a temperature you think is releavant [don't select a WIDE range, just say 27-28'C, as that will severely limit the number of].

--
Mats

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 16 Feb 2007, 14:53

C. starbai, C. gossei and some other are good for higher temps.

Here in Denmark I lost a group of C. loretoenis last summer. Temperatures around 30 degrees celcius for a long period in the tank was too much for them. My pandas were also struggling, but they made it.

snail · Post by **snail** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:32

It can get up to 42'C here but it's rare but 30+ temps are pretty taken for granted for July and August. The rest of the year is no prob but I'm worried about this, anyone else with experience?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Feb 2007, 15:40

Snail - I hope that 42'C is the temperasture in the air, not indoors where you tank is [hopefully you keep the tank inside, not outside!]

In warm climates, placing the tank on the inner walls in a house helps, rather than along a sundrenched wall.

Also read up on subjects about "cooling tanks" if you are interested.

--
Mats

snail · Post by **snail** » 16 Feb 2007, 16:20

MatsP wrote:Snail - I hope that 42'C is the temperasture in the air, not indoors where you tank is [hopefully you keep the tank inside, not outside!]

In warm climates, placing the tank on the inner walls in a house helps, rather than along a sundrenched wall.

Also read up on subjects about "cooling tanks" if you are interested.

--
Mats

True, when the official temp is 42'C it's probably like 37'C in the house but that is still going to be a problem (It is for me never mind the cories. lol) This is unusualy hot but most of July and August it gets above 28 every day in the house for sure. Of course the water in the tank will take longer to heat up than the air. The thermometer for my F8 puffer tank only goes up to 31'D which reading it does give when it's really hot. I run an air stone during heat waves and sometimes leave the tank top open but my puffers don't seem to mind much. The cories I have a feeling are going to struggle though.

jimoo · Post by **jimoo** » 16 Feb 2007, 17:32

I am worried about this as well, my room gets quite hot, during warm spells my room is consistently at around 35 C every day for 8-10 hours, but the tank is pretty small (too small I'm told) for a chiller. Not sure what else I could do.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Feb 2007, 17:41

Runing an airline through the fridge is always a solution (if you run the AIR-pump through the fridge, it's probably not going to have MUCH effect, but running a few meters of air-line through the fridge with water flowing through it will work really well - just make sure you don't drop the temperature TOO much). Slow water flow is a good idea here, so no pumping of huge capaicity.

If you haven't got a fridge in the room, you may consider one of those small "gadget" fridges that they sell to place in your living room - big enough for about a six-pack or so.

Obviously, it doesn't have to be an air-line as such, just any hose that you can connect to a pump and runs some length through a fridge is fine.

You may need to drill holes in the fridge to get the hose in and out - ask owners permission if it's not your own!

--
Mats

jimoo · Post by **jimoo** » 16 Feb 2007, 18:00

That's a heck of an idea. Have you done it, or is this just conceptual?

Either way, I'm going to keep my eye out for a sale for one of those micro fridges.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 16 Feb 2007, 19:39

jimoo wrote:That's a heck of an idea. Have you done it, or is this just conceptual?

I know this is done by people with North sea tanks, which require real cold woter (always less than 20 degrees or so)

They just put an Eheim in the fridge, and a roll of 50 meter of tubing. Take 18 mm tubing, than you have approx 5 liters in the tubing.

snail · Post by **snail** » 17 Feb 2007, 01:02

Very interesting idea thanks

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 17 Feb 2007, 15:56

I have a small fan that I run over the top of the tank. Adding airstones helps(adds oxygen). If things get really tough, I place a bottle of water in the freezer. I keep the top on and float it on the top(I keep control of it). The frozen water bottle is tougher for larger tanks, but it works well with smaller tanks(10-20 gallons). With smaller tanks, sometimes placing sensative species on a lower rack can help a tad. Just some thoughts.

Amanda

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 19 Feb 2007, 12:34

jimoo wrote:That's a heck of an idea. Have you done it, or is this just conceptual?

Either way, I'm going to keep my eye out for a sale for one of those micro fridges.

I haven't done it myself.

Of course, an alternative to "small" fridges is to get a used fridge. I saw some the other day for around 35 pounds ($70) with 3 months warranty.

--
Mats

Reginator · Post by **Reginator** » 20 Feb 2007, 08:33

I did it with a mini-fridge last year for the summer, but I haven't got any fotos and the fridge was given to a buddy with a lobster tank in his restaurant (they're not for eating, just for show) as it gets damn hot in there all year. I will be doing another for this summer as we get pretty high temperature here in the north of spain too, so I'll take photos of the process and post 'em when I do

snail · Post by **snail** » 20 Feb 2007, 10:34

This idea is very interesting. I've seen mini fridges for sale for like 50 euros here. One question though. Is it not difficult to regulate the temp without constant attention, for example do you still run the pipe through the frigde at night? Is there not a danger of the water getting too cold or fluctuating too fast?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Feb 2007, 10:56

You can always run a heater in the tank to keep the temperature up. Or set the thermostat in the fridge quite high. Or perhaps run the fridge on a timer.

--
Mats

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 20 Feb 2007, 11:22

snail wrote:One question though. Is it not difficult to regulate the temp without constant attention, for example do you still run the pipe through the frigde at night? Is there not a danger of the water getting too cold or fluctuating too fast?

I see 4:
Is it not difficult to regulate the temp without constant attention?
do you still run the pipe through the frigde at night?
Is there not a danger of the water getting too cold ?or fluctuating too fast?

Perhaps a good argument to explain this system more theoratically.

As always, you should realize that a new method will require tunig (in this case fine-tuning would most likely be an understatement). The higher the difference betwee nwater temp en fridge temp, the more cooling the fridge will provide.

Further, the fridge will have a certain cooling capacity. Say, this is 10 liters * degrees a hour. This will maen, that a tank containing 100 liters will loose 1 degree an hour. However, as the tank is standing in a hotter room, the room will add a certain amount of heat to the tank. Thre larger the difference, the faster the heating of the tank will go.

Thus, if your tank gets cooler, less heat wil lbe given in the fridge, and it will get more heat from the room. In the end these two influences will balance each other out and you will get a certain temperature.

Whether this temp is what you wanted,I can not tell. however, if it is to low, you can:
change the temp in teh fridge (a thermostate is included in all fridges)
reduce the length of tubing in the fridge
increase the length of tubing outside the fridge
install a heater, but this will mean heting and cooling at the same time, thus dubble energy expenses.

You can also decrease the pump capacity.

Another option would be to put a timer o nthe fridge, cooling only by day (or night)

In case you put a Eheim (or other brand0 in the fridge, DO NOT PULL THE PLUG FOR THE PUMP filters must be run continuously, otherwise the filter will produce toxic products, which will harm (or kill) your fishes when the energy is back on line.

Lastly, the fluctuations. Depending on the species, and the fluctuations, this will hurt a lot, or they weill thrive on it. for instance. Xiphophorus likes them a lot (I do not think more than 10 degrees, though)

Bas

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Feb 2007, 11:37

In case you put a Eheim (or other brand0 in the fridge, DO NOT PULL THE PLUG FOR THE PUMP filters must be run continuously, otherwise the filter will produce toxic products, which will harm (or kill) your fishes when the energy is back on line.

I would be cautious when putting an external filter inside a fridge.

The low temperatures may be inhibit the biological filtration in the filter.

I would suggest it best to purchase an empty one specifically for the purpose.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Feb 2007, 11:55

racoll wrote:
In case you put a Eheim (or other brand0 in the fridge, DO NOT PULL THE PLUG FOR THE PUMP filters must be run continuously, otherwise the filter will produce toxic products, which will harm (or kill) your fishes when the energy is back on line.

I would be cautious when putting an external filter inside a fridge.

The low temperatures may be inhibit the biological filtration in the filter.

I would suggest it best to purchase an empty one specifically for the purpose.

And for the surface area of the filter vs. volume of water, you're much better off with a pump like this Eheim Compact, and a length of hose that you just wind around in the fridge. A 16mm hose fits nicely on this pump. Then just lead it back into the tank... Adjusting the flow-rate will allow you to adjust the temperature. Cost should be a fair bit less than the cost of an Eheim filter, even without media.

If you want to be REALLY fancy, then you should use some aluminium or copper tubing to let the water through inside the fridge, as that allows better thermal transfer (but also has the problem of potentially adding Al or Cu to the water...). [With hose-clamps (jubilee clips or similar) you can attach 16mm hose to 15mm copper tubing].

--
Mats

Reginator · Post by **Reginator** » 21 Feb 2007, 08:33

Last year I had the fridge on from about 9am to about 10pm, adjusting the cooling was simply a matter of coiling more or less tubing into the fridge. The mini-fridge cooled my water by up to 5º with a couple of metres inside, enough to keep my "cool" tropical tank at a comfy temperature.

davenia7 · Post by **davenia7** » 23 Feb 2007, 16:05

Ok, so I am assuming that in Europe, Air conditioning isn't as common as it is here in the US. It gets over 100 degrees Fahrenheit here, dunno celsius.. but thanks to the AC, the house stays in the lower 70's all day.
I actually don't know anyone here without air conditioning, whether centralized or a window unit.
If you would spend the money on a fridge, why not just get a "window shaker", that's an air conditioner that goes in the window and you be more comfortable too. My grandmother had 2 to cool her 1200 sq. ft. home in Southern Florida where it gets over 120 degrees F in the summer frequently.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 24 Feb 2007, 09:36

Yeah, Davenia7's hit the nail on the head. I was worried with a/c not being as common in the UK that any units available would be prohibitively expensive. And they are: 449.00 GBP = 881.161 USD for one unit I found on the following site, according to this currency conversion site: http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi. But hey, with global warming...might be a wise investment even across the pond and up north.

Here's the link: http://www.airconditionershack.co.uk/

Good gracious those prices are ridiculous. When our central air unit broke a couple of summers ago, my husband got us a couple of window a/c units for about $60 USD (about 30 UK pounds) apiece. After our central unit was replaced, we actually GAVE the units away to a friend for his attic office. Even non-window portable units, though more expensive, could be found for half the amount quoted on that site. Maybe you can find some a/c units from some enterprising US seller on Ebay. I don't know if you could escape VAT or other charges though.

Well, at least you have the option of renting/hiring a unit at that site. That may help get you through a rough patch of weather.

That was just one site I found. After reading Davenia's post I was curious and did a Google search of potential options for y'all. My husband's best friend is married to a British lady and when they visited London awhile back in the summer, they nearly melted to death because there wasn't any a/c in their hotel. I could not believe my ears. Where I live, which is north of Davenia but still a southern state, we HAVE to have a/c or the summers would kill us. Humidity, smog, allergens, West Nile Virus carrying mosquitoes...the great outdoors will kill a body!

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 24 Feb 2007, 18:33

Although it might sound easy to say - I lifi in NL, that is as far north as the Great lakes in Canada / USA, I do not have any airconditioning, and I do not want any.

When a student, I lived under a flat roof, slept in a high bed, close to this roof, and had temperatures between 28 and 30 degrees (C, thus above 80 F) 4 months a year. When it's hot, it is hot.

Last January6 I stayed a while in Salto, Uruguay. the hotel had airco, but I switched it off.

I think the above praise for airconditioners is something many Europeans do not understand at all. I for one do not. After all, humans evolved on the African savannas, whith tamperatures above 40 C.

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 25 Feb 2007, 04:51

I apologize. My above post was incredibly ignorant of the topic. I just realized the original poster was from Portugal, not the UK. I'd gotten confused about who was asking about what. I was only trying to help but I think I may be in the wrong forum to be of help--in way over my head and totally out of my education range here, I'm sorry.

Humans may have evolved on the African savannas, but if you're born into a culture and/or region where you have air conditioning every summer, you're not going to feel comfortable without it and if it's available and inexpensive, you're not even going to consider why you maybe should not. And you will naturally wonder how other people make do without it.

Anyway, my post wasn't intended to criticize people of other regions for not wanting or liking a/c. I just wanted to help anyone find some units if they needed it for their fish. Once again, I'm sorry. I have permanent foot--in-mouth disease...er...foot-in-keyboard disease.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 25 Feb 2007, 15:12

I live in the far Southeastern corner of Washington State which is a semiarid region with temperatures exceeding 113dF for weeks on end. I live at the lower end of the appropriattely named Hell's Canyon of the Snake River. 118dF is not unusual. I had to adjust my collection of fishes to only warmwater tolerant fishes including my omnipresent discus farm, added Hypancistrus
species and some Corys. I raise hundreds of Cory sterbai and I have added C-121, C. duplicareous and all seem to tolerate the high 80's my tanks reach in the summer.
I only have an old air conditioner that keeps the house temp below 92dF., barely
It is a tough period to get through just the same. I had to give up raising Killiefish, regrettably.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 25 Feb 2007, 17:58

Savannas or not, I bloody hate the summer, and my fish aren't too fond of it either.

In the last few years the summers have seemed to be much hotter and longer than before.

Air conditioning is becoming more and more popular in the UK, but I still don't know anyone who has it.

I would install if I could afford it. It would be nice to run it off solar panels too.

Reginator · Post by **Reginator** » 25 Feb 2007, 21:28

I've been told by a buddy who fits AC here in spain that the cost is so high due to the electricity consumption rate and the preventative EU taxes imposed on them. My house has a 3KWH limit, any more and the fuses pop, and they want to reduce that to bring our energy consumption into line with the Kyoto agreement. AC units consume far too much to be permitted on the scale seen in the US, so they are generally only seen in commercial premises which have a higher energy allowance....

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 26 Feb 2007, 01:18

Wow, that's another thing I didn't know, about how strictly some of you have to comply with energy consumption limits. I guess Americans must seem awfully self-indulgent and wasteful to many people in other countries, by comparison. Honestly we're not, not intentionally anyway. And not as individuals. Most Americans I know would now do everything to conserve resources if they could. Fighting a wasteful infrastructure just doesn't happen overnight, though. As for the need for a/c, it goes state by state, too, of course, so I can't speak for American, just for myself and the people I know well.

It's a big country with a lot of different climates and issues to deal with. Pollution, not heat, is actually one of the big motivators for a/c use where I live. Even people who don't mind the heat can't take a bad ozone day. In the summers, where I live, even though it's not anywhere near an industrial city, because of the air currents, we get pollution problems and air quality problems from traffic and an industrial city that is within the state, though not that close to my region. Again, it's the airflow that makes a far-flung city's pollutions a problem in MY backyard. These pollution problems combined with the heat, can outright kill a lot of people from the elderly and small children, to people with asthma and severe allergies. We have news alerts with heat advisories that tell us to stay indoors and turn our a/c's on.

Another thing is the way many of the neighborhoods were constructed, the developers took down the natural tree canopies and the houses sit totally exposed to the sun, absorb the heat, retain it and radiate into the home at levels greater than the outdoor temperature. Basically it turns the house into an oven. And worse, somehow it became a fad to create houses with multi-story rooms--for example the great "2-story foyer" so lovingly fawned over by realtors. So basically a lot of people with the newer houses are consuming electricity to heat or cool areas that only a parakeet could make use of. These multi-story rooms are impressive and beautiful, but at what price? But since I don't own such a house, I can't sit and criticize anyone who does. There may be benefits to that design I'm not aware of.

snail · Post by **snail** » 13 Mar 2007, 20:56

Just looked up this topic that I posted a while back seems to be all about AC now. Funnily enough I grew up in uk so I am not exactly used to the heat but all the same we don't have AC. Portuguese people say it is bad for your health, I'm more woried about my pocket. We do have one of those little mobile units that the tube goes out the window which I put on for a couple of hrs once in a while but it makes loads of noise. We might get AC put in some time but even if I did there is no way I'd run it all the time cos electricity is too expensive. I guess It might be usefull for when it gets really hot and I was desperate to save my fish (and myself) but a two week heat wave would be too long to leave it on non stop. And as I have an old electricity system it would blow the fuses if I tried to turn on as much as the toaster at the same time!

jimoo · Post by **jimoo** » 09 Aug 2007, 17:29

Unfortunately, the fridge hasn't worked for me at all. The little 6 pack fridge just gets a bit barely cool, even with 10' of air tubing in it, it has no effect.

I've lost 1 sterbai cory, 2 cardinal tetras, & 1 jellybean tertra in the last week during from the heat/stress (I believe, haven't lost a fish in the previous 3 months).

Oh well. Leaving the A/C isn't an option due to having 2 other roommates that would be PO'd.