Help My L082 isn't looking clever!!

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 13 Feb 2007, 12:42

PH 7.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate <20ppm (mg/l)
180l Tank with gravel substrate 2x Bogwood and caves out of rock.
Water change 30% at least every 2 weeks
Tank mates: - 1x L264 1x L017 1x Common Pleco 1x Wild Severum

Hi there,
My L082 hides most of the daytime and recently when installing a new air disk and air stone to increase aeration for my incoming arrival of a Queen Arabesque I noticed he was looking quite patchy. His colour is normally dark with vibrant yellow spots and at the mo he is looking pale. I feed my plec's on courgette every couple of weeks and Hikari wafers and of course as much tank algae as they can eat. The common plec, being quite large does eat a lot of the food in the tank.
Thanks for any help!!
Stu.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Feb 2007, 13:16

Courgette every couple of weeks? I'd say that's not even close to often enough. Every day would be much better.

L264 requires more of a meaty diet.

L82 should be fine on a mostly vegetarian diet.

Not sure what else to suggest. What's the temperature in the tank?

Of coruse, are you sure it's not just stress colouration?

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 13 Feb 2007, 13:53

L82 should be fine on a mostly vegetarian diet.

Are you sure of this Mats?

The closest placement of this species is , and the dentition of is definitely that of a carnivore.

See pics in Aqualog.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Feb 2007, 13:58

racoll wrote:
L82 should be fine on a mostly vegetarian diet.

Are you sure of this Mats?

The closest placement of this species is
Scobinancistrus
, and the dentition of
Ancistrini sp(l082)
is definitely that of a carnivore.

See pics in Aqualog.

Ah, yes - sorry for the duff advice, a more omnivore than herbivore, so more meaty stuff please.

Algae wafers are quite meaty, so they are fine. A mussles, cockle, prawns and such are also good meaty food.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 13 Feb 2007, 19:56

Although its probably best to give a more varied diet than algae wafers and courgette, I wouldn't think that would be enough to make the fish ill.

How long have you had him?

How long has it been like this?

Is there enough hiding places?

Is there any bullying going on?

Temperature?

Is the behaviour OK otherwise? eg feeding, hiding, breathing etc

Is the belly sunken?

Can you take any photos?

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 13 Feb 2007, 23:32

Thanks for the replies for a start

!! No bullying is going on and the water temp is around 27c / 81f. I've had him since Oct last year and he's been getting on fine. He generally hides most of the time and other than colour he is fine, breathing,shape, etc! Generally he feeds at night and is dificult to catch in the act. I try to keep the courgette to a minimum as the large (25 - 30cm) common plec hammers it leaving litle for any of the others. He has been like this for a couple of days. He has a good hiding place of his own as do the others. I'll give him a try on some of the meatier foods suggested. Other than a blip of 0.25 Nitrite for 1 day about a week ago the water quality is pristine and well monitored. Why would he be stressed ( stress colouration )? Can you give me some more info please??
Thanks,
Stu.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 14 Feb 2007, 09:34

Other than a blip of 0.25 Nitrite for 1 day about a week ago

A spike in the nitrite suggests your filtration might not be up to the job. Try to measure nitrite at 1 hour intervals after feeding.

This could establish if there is a peak of nitrite that the filter can't handle.

What sort of filter are you running?

Why would he be stressed ( stress colouration )?

Fish can display stress colouration as part of their normal life. They will go pale and blotchy often at night, and when you catch them for example.

However, when they are always pale and blotchy (like yours), there may be something else wrong.

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 14 Feb 2007, 10:12

Hi There,
Rio 180 Tank with it's standard filtration. I wash the filter media out in tank water when I do a water change. Replace the fine particulate on the top every week / 2 weeks and I replace the rest of the media one at a time every year. I give about 1 month betwen each media during change and use double dose of cycle to maintainthe bacteria level. I also float the new media in a breeding net for about 2 weeks with the existing filtration before introducing and always dose the media with Cycle before introduction. I always monitor the levels as part of my weekly maintenance and have started to monitor daily since following some of the feeding recomendations.I.E introducing fresh veg every day! I've also tried to put some food in an area of the tank where the large plec cannot get to to try and get a fair distribution of food.

Read a few of the articles on feeding after your comments on feeding, very interesting. I'm in the process of drawing up a new feeding schedule. Liked the comments on the egg white / food painting on the decor, rocks, wood etc might give it a try!! Checked out your cats as well, nice!!!

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 14 Feb 2007, 10:39

http://www.scotcat.com/loricariidae/hyp ... ector6.htm
I checked out some pics of stress colouration and the link above shows a good example of how my fish is looking. The bottom pic, although not as pale! I've kept tropical fish for about 5 years now, community and South American Cichlids, and i've never seen any example of stress colouraton before, hence the reason in my last post I asked about it!! I've only started to keep plec's, other than the common pleco, for about 6 months now. I've only seen this colouration on L082 and none of the others.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 15 Feb 2007, 09:33

i've never seen any example of stress colouraton before

If you've ever kept neon tetras (and many other tetras) you may have noticed that when you turn the lights on in the morning they are all pale and swimming on their sides.

This is an example of "stress" or "night" colouration.

Perhaps they lose their shiny colours in order to prevent themselves being eaten at night when they not as alert.

Also, you may wish to hold off on the L260 until you can work out what is the problem with the L082.

It may be nothing, but you never know.......

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 15 Feb 2007, 10:09

I managed to catch a look at L082 with the light on today and he is looking a little more vibrant.
I recently removed 2 large cichlids out of the tank after deciding to setup my tank for plecs. These were generally the bosses of the tank so maybe the Severum is exerting a bit of authority at night. I've got a new Rio 180 tank on the way which I'm going to put the Severum and large plec in so I can keep my main tank for my new additions. I read your suggestions on the L260 and think I'll hold off and see how the L082 gets on without the Severum in and with the new feeding. After seeing a few pics of plec tanks I think i'll add a few more caves and some plants to increase shady areas as I plan to add a couple more plecs in the future.

L264 Leporacanthicus joselimai requires more of a meaty diet.

I added some frozen bloodworm and Daphnia to the tank last night, L264 liked

!! L082 is still a hider though won't feed until all the room lights etc are off and there isn't anyone there!

Try to measure nitrite at 1 hour intervals after feeding.

Due to the new feeding regime, a little more than I normally feed, I'm measuring Ammonia and Nitrite morning and evening to ensure filter is coping ok.

Thanks for all your help you've been a star!!

[/b]

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Feb 2007, 10:45

Stubob, can you please fill in the "location" entry in your profile (top right of the page). That way, if you ever need advice based on where you live (probably the UK - but that's just a guess), then we can give it.

--
Mats

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 15 Feb 2007, 11:12

No Probs, done already!!

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 15 Feb 2007, 11:17

I read your suggestions on the L260 and think I'll hold off and see how the L082 gets on without the Severum in and with the new feeding.

Good idea. I've just fed my fish, and my L. joselimai is looking a little pale and blotchy, but I don't think there is any problem at the moment.

Its very hard to say what could be wrong with yours, as your set-up sounds fine. If he continues to look off-colour, then he may be suffering from a disease.

His behaviour is the best indicator to how he is. My guess is that he's not getting enough food.

Its wise to wait a while before getting the L260. They aren't hard to get hold of.

Let us know how it goes.....

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 17 Feb 2007, 08:45

Will do, watch this space!!

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 18 Feb 2007, 21:00

Managed to get a good look at the Opal yesterday and he now appears to have a white patch at the base of his fin. Looks like fungus to me so i've dosed the tank with fungus/finrot treatment. The Severum and large plec have now been moved to another tank. I managed to get a picture, a little blurry but you can clearly see the white patch at the base of his fin. I haven't actually got any web space to put the pic on though!! All the others appear to be fine so I think it must be caused by the Severum having a nip. The Severum used to spend some time near to where the opal normally hides. Is there another way I can get the photo to you to view??

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 19 Feb 2007, 12:43

You can get free web-space with various "photo selling sites", such as "ImageShack.com". They provide you with the space, you just have to sign up and upload your pictures. Most of them even have a "bbcode" box that you can just cut and paste to link here.

--
Mats

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 20 Feb 2007, 20:43

Hi,
Try this link for a pic! It's a bit blurry but the best I can do at the mo! Will try to get some more when he comes out, if ever!!

http://www.unfounded.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/[url]

Stubob · Post by **Stubob** » 20 Feb 2007, 20:45

http://www.unfounded.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Getting better with this postin lark!Lol. Try this again.