Just before I buy...

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 19 Jan 2007, 18:51

I have recently started researching into starting a tropical tank. I have been to my lfs and the biggest tank I think I can get is something like: The Fluval Duo Deep 600 Aquarium measures:
60cm long x 35cm deep x 40cm high.

I have done some research and thin i'm going to start with guppiesd, then some tetras and then finally some corys! I'm going to have amazon sword and java moss and a sand substrate for the corys.

HOWEVER.. everytime I see a plec I fall in love.. so can anyone confirm whether any type of plec could be happy in the above tank (instead of the corys) before I make my final decision, I think it may be too small for any of the blighters!

Thanks for any help!

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 19 Jan 2007, 18:58

You could easily combine Corys with an Ancistrus or several Otocinclus in your tank. Although tiny, Otos are very worthwile and enjoyable Loricarids. Have a look in the Cat-eLog under Loricariidae.

kcmt01 · Post by **kcmt01** » 19 Jan 2007, 19:44

Marc van Arc wrote:You could easily combine Corys with an Ancistrus or several Otocinclus in your tank. Although tiny, Otos are very worthwile and enjoyable Loricarids. Have a look in the Cat-eLog under Loricariidae.

I agree about Otos, BUT make sure the tank is well-cycled before you add them. They're like the canary in the mine; they are usually the first to die if water quality isn't quite right. Maybe you could consider a few white cloud minnows to mature the tank first. They're cheap, hardy, and quite pretty if you can find some nice ones.

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 19 Jan 2007, 19:58

Wow! I didnt realise that there were quite so many! To be honest the Oto's look nic ebut not reallt the sort of catfish which I really like.

Am i right in thinking Ancistrus family are the same as the bristlenose? I really like these type but it is quite worring as although some say they dont grow over a few inch some grow upto 9 still and I wouldnt want to get the wrong one and have it outgrow the tank?

Would it be best to keep one small plec in a tank of this size or would it share it space with some cory's ok?

Thanks for the advice- catfish seems quite a complicated area and i dont want to get it wrong. I'd only be adding it to quite a mature tank which once all the other fish had settled.

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 19 Jan 2007, 20:06

one other nice aspect of the ottos is that in my experiance i have found that they do an excelent job of keeping plant leaves clean.

Many of the ancistrus would do well in your size tank also but make sure you provide some cave like hiding places for them so they feel secure.

Personally im rather fond of , i have a small breeding group of them and they are very active and add colour to the tank and only grow to around 4.3 inches. are another of my favorites and stay relativly small too.

Mixing Cories with ancistrus should be fine as both are very peacfull catfish, and i have had several species of cories with ancistrus. I have currently got a group of 6 cories in the same tank as a very small juvinile L144 and there has been absolutly no trouble at all.

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 19 Jan 2007, 20:19

I love the look of the Ancistrus dolichopterus! It is beautiful!

Do normal lfs sell these type or are they hard to come across?

I also notice that most poeple say that you should have a min of 4 corys - is this the same for plecs or are they happy on there lonesome?

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 19 Jan 2007, 20:25

My local LFS has them, but they do specialise in catfish, so im not sure how common they are. I believe most ancistrus would be fine on their own. They are not as social to their own kind as cories are.

kcmt01 · Post by **kcmt01** » 19 Jan 2007, 20:35

L168 http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=706

is definitely on my wish list.

Boots n all · Post by **Boots n all** » 19 Jan 2007, 20:39

l would you suggest you go and visit a few local LF Shops and see what is available in your area and what will suit your budget also

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 19 Jan 2007, 21:21

Unfortunately both and are both blackwater species.

I would not recommend them to someone who is setting up their first tank. They will require very soft and acidic water to thrive.

I would go for a regular bristlenose ().

Once you gain experience with these you can go for some of the more demanding types.

I also notice that most poeple say that you should have a min of 4 corys - is this the same for plecs or are they happy on there lonesome?

I would go for a minimum of 7 Corydoras, but a bristlenose will be fine on his own.

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:53

I see your point and agree completley, if people think a bristlenose would be happy in a well maintained tank of my size then I will get one instead of the corys, as I just think they are the most wondeful fish!

Thanks for all your help, its great to be able to get so much information so quickly from so many knowledgable people!

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Jan 2007, 08:52

toplecornottoplec wrote: Do normal lfs sell these type or are they hard to come across?

Especially for questions like this you should add your location in your profile.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Jan 2007, 10:42

if people think a bristlenose would be happy in a well maintained tank of my size then I will get one instead of the corys

I don't see why you can't keep Corydoras and a bristlenose in that tank.

A stocking of say, a couple of guppies, 10 small tetras, 7 Corydoras & a bristlenose is fine for that tank.

I would consider an external/cannister filter such as the eheim 2213. Bristlenoses can produce a lot of waste when tucking in to veggies, and these filters are much better at coping than the internal types.

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 20 Jan 2007, 15:36

I dont think its a good idea to keep guppys with the other fish you want to keep.Guppys like hard water while all the other fish you want to put like softer water...So one group of them will always be unhappy...Its better to not put guppys in my opinion.Tetras are pretty and always on the move anyway so you wont loose anything if you dont have the guppys...

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 20 Jan 2007, 19:47

DO you think a couple platy would be better?

I'd heard that as long as you make sure the nitrite, amonia etc are all ok most fish will adapt to the type of water ok?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:18

Unless you have adjusted your water to be very soft and acid I fail to see why you could not keep guppies or platys. They would not be my choice but they will not interfere with your plecos pursuit of happiness.
I prefer keeping SA Characins and SA Cichlid; discus, wild angels, and SA dwarf Cichlids as well as Corydoras.
What reasons have others have for advising no livebears?
Their life styles do not interfere with the natural behavior of the plecos and actually are not a bad group of fishes to assist in keeping the plant leaves cleaner. I would agree that Otocinclus are also good tank mates. I myself make extensive use of them in pleco tanks.
For your first foray into breeding plecos few other species surpass the ease with which common bn present to gain initial experience.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Jan 2007, 12:09

I dont think its a good idea to keep guppys with the other fish you want to keep.Guppys like hard water while all the other fish you want to put like softer water...

I'll have to disagree with this opinion Kostas.

I think that provided all the above fish are tank raised rather than wild caught they will all be perfectly happy with hard alkaline tapwater.

toplecornottoplec, if you add your location to your profile (it is a forum rule) then we can advise you on what type of water you are likely to have.

The edit profile feature is on the top right menu when you are logged in.

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 21 Jan 2007, 14:22

Sorry! I've added it in. I believe I live in a hard water area.

I'm really confused now! People on a general fish forum seem to think that some tetras, a couple of platy and a BN would over stock or be on the very limit for my tank, and are putting me off the idea as I dont want to get in that position!

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Jan 2007, 14:48

I go into a fair bit of detail in this thread about stocking a tank.

I will also PM you some info you may find helpful.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 21 Jan 2007, 15:53

toplecornottoplec wrote: People on a general fish forum seem to think that some tetras, a couple of platy and a BN would over stock or be on the very limit for my tank, and are putting me off the idea as I dont want to get in that position!

I'm sure these people mean well, but as long as you take proper care of your tank there shouldn't be any problems with regard to that stocklist, provided you start off with a cycled tank, healthy fishes etc.
When in doubt, don't buy and/or take someone along who knows his/her stuff.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Jan 2007, 16:05

Do you have a link to the thread?

Perhaps they were saying don't add all these fish at once (which is good advice).

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Jan 2007, 18:17

Doesn't seem to me that the proposed fish would constitute an overstocked condition.

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 22 Jan 2007, 00:56

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=176217

This should link to the thread

Off to my lfs tomorrow to have another look at everything now I know more about what i am looking at!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jan 2007, 04:21

I checked out the link and I gather your remaining question is whether you can safely add 7 Corydoras?
I think you can but I would allow this tank to age a couple weeks before adding them after all the other fish have settled in. But that would bring your total fish load close to the maximum so I would be careful about more fish.

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 22 Jan 2007, 09:28

No, No! Perhaps I have not been clear in the other thread

For me it is a choice between corys or plec, if i can house a BN then I wouldnt have the corys because this is my first tank and dont want to complicate it with too many fish that need different things!

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 22 Jan 2007, 11:21

You haven't been given any bad advice in the other forum, except the bit about needing salt (you don't).

Just differences in opinion

You don't say what filter you have. This will be the governing factor in how many fish you can keep.

It's probably the fluval 2 internal filter though.

Not the best filter in the world. It constantly blocks, and only contains a handful of media (which means smaller numbers of bacteria)

I thoroughly recommend you spend £50 (or get a second hand one even cheaper off ebay) and buy an eheim 2213.

These filters will repay that money with excellent reliability and performance. I have one still filtering as good as day one after 15 years. My fluval 2 lasted a month before I binned it.

With a large capacity quality filter you will have no problem keeping all those fish.

dont want to complicate it with too many fish that need different things!

I understand your concern, but Corydoras and bristlenoses can be kept in the same tank no problem. They don't have different needs.

Corydoras (with exceptions) prefer cooler water (20-25C). Bristlenoses are quite flexible, and will be OK from about 22-29C.

The cardinals however prefer warm water (26-30C), but tank raised stock may be a bit more accommodating. Neons may be a better choice. Black neons are also worth thinking about (I prefer these).

Perhaps a good idea is to go ahead with the Corydoras, and spend the money on a new filter in several months. Then you can add the bristlenose.

Choice of Corydoras will also make a difference. Go for a small species such as .

I hope I haven't confused you more!

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Jan 2007, 11:43

If you're in Woking, I'd recommend that you go to the Woking branch of Maidenhead aquatics. They have a good selection of generally healthy fish, including a reasonable selection of Pleco's of both common and more rare species, and they USUALLY have (most likely under the doubtfull species identification of Ancistrus temmincki). In fact my male bristlenose that I breed from is from there.

Just make sure you DO realize what pleco you're buying, and that it's not going to grow too big.

Also, Woking has hard water, so you'll need to use filtered (RO) water if you want to keep more exotic species like .

I wholeheartedly agree with Racoll on the filter, an external Eheim filter is worth every penny. Especially as you can find the 2213 model from mail-order for around 50 quid.

--
Mats

toplecornottoplec · Post by **toplecornottoplec** » 22 Jan 2007, 14:25

Funnily enough I have just got back from Woking Maidenhead Aquatics!

I think i'm going to start my tank with the platy then add the tetras and then re-asses after everyone has settled in.

They had both wee wee baby bristlenoses and a fully grown bristlenose there and I still really like these, think perhaps that will be my final choice and not worry about the corys at this stage.

I will look into an external filter too.

THanks everyone for their patience in helping me out!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jan 2007, 16:10

You will never regret getting the Ehiem canister filter.
I bought my first in 1969 and I have never used anything but. I have the 2215 and a 2217 currently.

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 23 Jan 2007, 08:15

Sorry for taking me so long to answer,i just forgot about my post in this thread

The reason i say no live bearers is that they prefer harder and more alkaline water than all the other fish you want to put in.So you wont be able to lower the ph when you want to for example breed the Corydoras or generally better satisfy your fish needs by keeping them in softer water closer to the one they come from.Even captive bred ones are better if kept in water closer to the one their ancestors lived.I dont say that they cant live along with livebearers in an inbetween ph,i just say that its better to keep together fishes that have the same preferences about water chemistry

Just before I buy...

Just before I buy...

Hmm