All Systems Go...Breeding L262

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 16 Jan 2007, 16:04

Well my plans to breed Hypancistrus sp. L262 are finally coming together.

In this post (9 months ago!) I added a male and a female to the 60 litre breeding tank.

I wanted to fatten them up further, but I felt I couldn't go too mad with food, as they were the only fish in the tank and I was worried about pollution from uneaten food.

In order to solve this I ordered some Parotocinclus jumbo. I only got hold of these before Christmas.

Anyway, I have been feeding heavily and now seems a good time to trigger the first spawn.

The temp is 29/30C and the conductivity 600µS/cm.

It is January, which is just before peak rainfall month (Feb) in the Tapajos basin.

There is also a big low pressure system over the UK at the moment, and all my plecs seem very active. I know as an angler that barometric pressure has a big effect on fish behaviour.

So, it seems a good time to start adding some cold RO water, drop the temp and turn the powerhead to max.

Well any comment welcome....

Sid, I moved the Crenicichla by the way.

Spot the male in his cave....

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Jan 2007, 16:17

I'd say go for it... Can't do (much) harm, anyways...

[I recognise the Eheim pump on the side of the tank, but mine is a bit more hidden].

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Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 16 Jan 2007, 16:31

Yeah, doesn't look great, but its there because it directs a nice current across the entrance to the caves.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Jan 2007, 16:35

I didn't say you should change anything - but turning the pump the upside down might improve the current acorss the front of the caves (intake at the bottom instead of top).

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Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 16 Jan 2007, 17:00

but turning the pump the upside down might improve the current acorss the front of the caves (intake at the bottom instead of top).

I have a feeling the pump will be powerful enough. Its the 1000 lph model.

If I turn it upside down, I'm concerned that little piece of foam will fall off (it falls off occasionally even being the right way up) and I could lose a Parotocinclus in the intake.

I have lost fish this way before, so I always cover intakes with foam.

If no spawning occurs, I'll perhaps have a re-think.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 Jan 2007, 17:08

I have the same 1000 lph, I never really saw much point in spending a couple of pounds less for the "smaller" model pumps, seeing as the pump is adjustable for flow-rate anyways.

I see the point about the foam. Perhaps some inventive use of rubber-bands or cable-ties can solve the problem of it falling off? [Or stainless steel wire if you have access to that].

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 16 Jan 2007, 17:55

I have the same 1000 lph, I never really saw much point in spending a couple of pounds less for the "smaller" model pumps, seeing as the pump is adjustable for flow-rate anyways.

Indeed.

I see the point about the foam. Perhaps some inventive use of rubber-bands or cable-ties can solve the problem of it falling off? [Or stainless steel wire if you have access to that].

I will give that a try if I need to.

I'm thinking of turning the heater down to 25C. Most of the articles in Shanes World speak of various different temperatures, so this seems about right, I hope?

I don't want to give them ich!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 16 Jan 2007, 20:19

Hi Racoll,
I had to look up L262 to refresh my memory. Nice looking
fish. Good luck with this project.
This my first winter keeping Hypancistrus and I have noticed that they seem more active lately. I do think they are still keeping to their internal calendars.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 16 Jan 2007, 23:05

One the fish in the cat-elog page is the male I'm trying to breed.

He looks a lot more mature now though. Big and hairy

I do think they are still keeping to their internal calendars.

No idea, but I would not be surprised if they did to some extent.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 17 Jan 2007, 10:37

I'd say dropping to 25-26'C should work fine.

--
Mats

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 18 Jan 2007, 00:20

I have got a question.
Do you keep your temperature at 30 when you are not triggering a spawn and then decrease it when you are going to try and trigger a spawn?
I have been trying to breed my l066 and i have just left the temp at 30 and have been doing the waterchanges and letting it drop to about 26-27.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2007, 09:41

it's generally considered a good way to trigger spawning in these fishes by:
1. Reducing the conductivity of the water.
2. Lowering the temperature 2-4'C (4-9'F).
3. Increased meaty food.

This simulates the seasonal change from dry to wet season, and all species of Loricariidae have a "wet season" spawning period (of the ones where spawning behaviour is known - there are many that haven't been bred yet, including the above L262, but it's a fair assumption that this is still the same).

By the way, you'll probably want to retain the lower temperature for at least a few days, not just dropping it and then letting it raise back to "normal" by the heater, that'll be less reliable.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jan 2007, 10:58

there are many that haven't been bred yet, including the above L262

unfortunately if I manage to succeed I won't be the first to achieve it.

They have been spawned many times, just not by any regular member of the forum (that I know of).

There is an account in Wels Atlas II.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2007, 11:01

Oh, okay, my misunderstanding...

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Mats

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 18 Jan 2007, 12:31

i really like L262, think they are really good looking and there is someting about the big hypancistrus. I have got someting close to these guys L136/LDA05. just great looking plecos.
I have decreased the conductivity from about 650 to about 105 withing the last 2 weeks. today i did a 25% waterchange, i usually do 10%. But i don't do anything with the heater, just let it drop to about 26-27 then let it rise normally. So you think that i should just turn the heater down for a couple of days? sorry for this question.
It was very intersting to see the change in my plecos behaviour since the start of january. They have been really active. Yes these are wild caught according to the supplier. 3 females 1 males and one hasn't made up its mind yet

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2007, 12:42

I think you shuld drop the heater temp a few degrees, yes.

Doing more big wate changes will also help (watching the conductivity tho', as if you push it too low, you'll get unstable water).

Nearly ALL L-numbers are wild-caught, as well as most other plecos, except for common plecos and the common bristlenose plecos.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jan 2007, 13:08

i really like L262, think they are really good looking and there is someting about the big hypancistrus

I agree that they are good looking, but I wouldn't call them big.

I would say they are some of the smallest Hypancistrus. My male is only about 80mm TL. The female is even less than this at about 60mm TL.

They seemed to stop growing ages ago.

Compare that that to the really big Hypancistrus such as L066, L102 or Monte Dourado. Standard lengths of well over 100mm seem to be the norm.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2007, 13:17

Yes, the Cat-eLog lists it at 90mm, which is my interpretation of SL from a 80-100mm TL measurement that I have in some documentation.

That puts it around the lower half of the Hypancistrus species, and from that racoll says, it may even be a little bit optimistic that they'd reach 90mm SL...

List of Hypancistrus in size-order (not listing "unknown" sizes).

--
Mats

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 18 Jan 2007, 18:14

sorry my bad. funny how they say the L260 would get to 90mm (3.5"), and mine are all over that size. my male is about 13-14cm.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2007, 18:17

Can you supply photo with measurement for that male? If so, I can update the Cat-eLog to match... [bearing in mind that we're talking about standard length, not total length, check the Glossary under Help! in the menu if you don't know the difference].

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Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jan 2007, 18:39

funny how they say the L260 would get to 90mm (3.5"), and mine are all over that size. my male is about 13-14cm.

Are you sure they are not ?

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 18 Jan 2007, 20:51

I will measure him again when i am going to change him to a new tank. I was under the impression that it was the TL. But i will check again and get back to you.
My questions aside, racoll: Are the responding popsitively to your triggers?
I doubt that they are Hypancistrus sp`monte_dourado'. Will put up a picture of the fish on tuesday.
Ow and about whild caught fish, most of the hypancistrus that come into New Zealand seem to be tank spawned.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jan 2007, 21:50

Are they responding positively to your triggers?

Well I have carried out a 50% water change with neat RO water (with a little bit of buffer) for the last three nights.

The temp is now 25/26C and the conductivity is now 125µS/cm.

The Parotocinclus seem very excitable, but the Hypancistrus don't seem to be doing much.

The female keeps entering caves, but not the ones with the male in

The male has entered a smaller cave though.

To be honest, I've been trying not to concentrate too much on them.

I don't think shining torches at them all day will help.

Ow and about whild caught fish, most of the hypancistrus that come into New Zealand seem to be tank spawned.

That's great news. Obviously the real catfish enthusiasts will want wild caught fish, but the "average" fish keeper will have much more success with decent tank bred stock.

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 18 Jan 2007, 21:55

i a trying not to concentrate on my L066 aswell. After i give my l144 a rest i will use the tank to have a go with my L260.
I will drop my tank temperature tonight and see what happens. They have become very active i must say, all 3 female are within a foot from the males cave. never had this happen before. only seen one hanging around

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 19 Jan 2007, 17:27

The biggest hurdle in the spawning process is to get the pair conditioned. Following that, they should breed like hotcakes, regardless of water chemistry.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 19 Jan 2007, 17:38

Did you have any success with yours Jon?

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 21 Jan 2007, 11:19

Any chance of an update racoll?
My L066 female is like 5-10cm from the males cave... well she has been like that since yesterday. Hope thats a good thing.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Jan 2007, 12:01

Well there was a bit of excitement this morning when I saw a white blob behind the male.

It was lust an anaemic snail though

The male is glued in his cave, but as Jon says, perhaps the female is not conditioned enough to be interested in spawning.

Rantosa · Post by **Rantosa** » 21 Jan 2007, 18:43

okay.cos from your previous topic i would have thought that the female was ready.. anyway good luck and keep us/me

informed

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 22 Jan 2007, 09:20

No such luck. The females were gravid for some time before the male jumped the tank.