pictus catfish obsessed with left wall of aquarium

[gerilyn]

Total newbie, so forgive my ignorance and impatience: Got my first 10-gallon fish tank for Christmas, went through all the prep, testing, etc., waited until end of 3rd day before adding fish. I fell in love with the Pictus Catfish at the petstore because they were so active, I planned my habitat around them. Pet store and other websites said they'd be okay in 10-gallon tank, but since then I saw Pictus posting here that says 29 gallons isn't enough -- sheesh, what's a newbie to do?

So I got 2 pictus catfish 5 days ago. They're on the left wall in the photograph. They are very active, zipping up and down the lefthand wall; but they just won't stray from the lefthand wall by more than 1" or so, they very rarely swim around the bottom, never swim across the center of the tank. The ones at the store and everything I've read says they should be all over the tank!

The plants are fake; I tried moving the large plant to the center to see if they'd follow the plant, but it made no difference. The heater and filter are on the left hand side; I also installed a bubble bar along the back (thinking perhaps the water circulating around the filter was the attractant), but it made no difference. I tried shining a flashlight in the left side of the tank, which they clearing didn't like, but they have apparently decided to live with the light on the left wall of the aquarium rather than move to another part of the aquarium. The sides of the aquarium are very reflective; are they interested in their reflections?

Additional info: 10-gallon aquarium, which I let cycle for 3 days before adding fish. Temp is 75F, pH 6.8 (down from 7.6 before I added fish 5 days ago), chlorine 0, nitrite 0, hardness 120 (I think that's 6.7 dGH).

I was going to add barbs or medium-size tetras, but I can go with 4(?) pictus cats if they'd be happier. They really were my favorite fish at the petstore. Suggestions?

[Marc van Arc]

Hello & welcome to PC.
First of all: a lot of people around here will tell you 10 gallons isn't much. Don't let that discourage you.
The fact that the LFS says they'll be fine in a 10 gallon is quite simple; some LFS-ses would say they'd be happy in a bucket as long as they are sold. Never mind.
The amount of 2 specimen is always tricky, because one will always become superior, which automatically makes the other inferior. This will eventually end up in you having just one specimen. Therefore it is advised to keep fish like these in a group. Obviously you can't house a group. What can you do?
- add one more pictus and change about 33% of the water every week.
- no barbs. They don't go very well with long barbelled/whiskered fishes.
- add some larger Danio species. They'll make your pictus more at ease. Again, you must be very keen on the weekly water changes or else you might get into trouble.
- your pictus don't feel at home yet, that's why they keep swimming up and down the same spot. The addition of some free swimmers (mid or upper water layer) will make them less shy. Further more I would add a background for the same reason and some narrow caves as hiding places.
I truly hope this doesn't sound too harsh and that it helps you out a bit.

[courtnee]

I agree pictus can be in a 10gl tank but not for an exended period of time. They just get to big. These fish get around 6".

I tried to keep pictus in a 10gl and they kept dying on me. My sister has has two in a 10gl for 8mo or so now, they are starting to get to big but have done well in there with chinease alge eaters (but CAE can be aggressive when they reach adult hood).

Pictus like to swim up and down the side of the glass over and over again when they are stressed. This is one thing I have learned. They also seem to "talk" with their mouth. When they are content and happy they will not do this and will seem calm while sitting on the bottom, and race around swimming.

Each time I brought home a pictus they did this for a day or two until they settled down. I own 4 of them in a 55gl tank.

Your main issue is going to be getting that tank cycled. You COULD lose your fish during that. I stress not to add anymore fish until the tank is cycled. The pictus are enough of a bioload in the 10gl to cycle it.

Get a liquid (not test strips) testing kit for ammonia, nitrAte, nitrIte and test it daily. Do heavy water changes to keep the toxic levels down. Ammonia and nitrIte are very toxic and you need to make it through the cycle. In case you do not understand the cycle process.. you will see ammonia rise, as the ammonia is converted you will see the ammonia start to go away and the nitrItes spike up, eventually the nitrItes will start to fade as the nitrAtes spike. Eventually the ammonia will be at zero, the nitrItes to zero and the NitrAtes drop to zero to 10-20pm. NitrAtes are normal but have to be kept in a healthy range (done through PWC) and not overfeeding etc.

If you know someone with an established tank you can get some gravel from or filter media that would help.

If not I suggest Bio Spira. Some say it doesnt work, but it worked on my fishless cycle with cocktail shrimp very well. It is at the local fish supply and kept in the fridge and designed to add with fish already in the tank to speed up the cycle.

[gerilyn]

Not at all harsh, thank you very much.

The store said 4" adult size and had them housed with Barbs (rolling my eyes). I feel a lot better knowing this up-down behavior could be normal while they get settled. My starter test kit doesn't test ammonia or nitrates, so I'll get these test kits tomorrow and see what it tells me. I've been testing pH and nitrites daily. I'll start testing for ammonia and nitrate as well (I'll let you all know the results tomorrow).

I'm stuck with the 10-gallon tank for now. It's my first tank. Right now, it's addicting, but we'll see how I feel about this as a hobby in 6 months. The pictus catfish were the only fish that really caught my eye at the store, so I'll get a 3rd one if/after my ammonia/nitrate test okay. I assume 3 pictus catfish is the maximum my 10-gallon tank will hold.

[courtnee]

Yes it is addicting. I bought a 55gl because the 10 wasnt big enough and I wanted Pictus! lol I too fell in love with the pictus. The whiskers get me and they have such personality.

Yeah I was told columbian sharks AKA black fin sharks get to 6" too and I had one of those as well and sad it died but glad I learned the truth before I got another one. They get HUGE, so many people reported over 8" in the first year. After they get to adulthood they need brackish or their skin starts to have problems. They eventually move up to full marine. lol I saw pics online of people getting these fish to monster size.

I got blasted by people for trying to keep pictus in a 10gl tank. I agree it did not work good for me, but as babies they had room in there and I had full intentions of a larger home for them as they grew. My 10gl was like a tank of death for pictus. I think it was my high PH and now with the 55gl and lessons learned I have kept them in great condition. 10gl will only get your buy for so long. With 3 in there you will struggle with hiding places. They need logs or caves to go hide in and when you do that you run out of floor space for them to swim.

I suggest planning a bigger tank is all because you will need it. You can go up to a 29gl but you will still need a bigger tank yet. Better to just dive in and get the right size. Walmart has a 55gl for $150 you cant beat that. That is what I have and it works well for us. I plan to get a better filter. It was hard for me to place all their hiding spots in such a way they had floor space but being Martha Stewart with the tank I managed.

Spotted pictus are well known to reach 6". I got 2 four-line pictus as well and they get even bigger. I think long term anything smaller then a 55gl doesnt work but you should keep them in groups. I have 2 spotted pictus as I said and they fight a lot even though I have 2 four-lines in there. The spotted pictus hang out with each other but the four-lines stay together. My spotted are out all day long, the four-lines I never see unless it is dark in the tank.I am already planning a 125gl to make my four-lines happy LOL


My sister is just now starting to see hers get to big for a 10gl and thinking about her next tank LOL you have some time.

If you are like me you will enjoy this fish so much you will get a bigger tank.

Also bigger tanks are easier to take care of. I learned that. Sure the PWC are harder until I get a python but it is just so much more stable.

Good job on getting those tests and please keep me posted. I look forward to another pictus addict to chat with

Some vids of mine.
First is my spotted pictus kicking a four-line out of a hiding spot. Hilarious. Second is my largest four-line at about 5"

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/ ... myspot.flv
http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/ ... ranzer.flv

[gerilyn]

Ammonia level was between 1.0 and 2.0, definitely not over 2.0, so I just did another 5% water change. After the water change, it's right at 1.0, so I'll do a 10% change tomorrow. Nitrite still reads zero - will nitrite go up as ammonia goes down? (I'll get the nitrAte kit later this week.)

Actually, last night, one of the catfish finally came off the left wall. Not much, only about 2", but he kept "flashing" his belly onto the front glass. This morning and now, they're swimming around the tank -- mostly the left half of the tank, but they're getting to the middle anyway, and they've even strayed all the way to the right-hand side!

Thanks, all ... I'll keep you posted.

[courtnee]

Yep you will see the process. As the ammonia is converted you will see the rise in nitrItes as the ammonia drops and the rise in nitrAtes. The nitrItes will start to drop and the nitrAtes will stay steady peaked as all those nitrItes are being converted to nitrAtes.

It gets ugly before it gets better. It may seem like it is just hanging there and just wont cycle and before you know it BAM it all drops.

I find it so neat.

Keep up with testing and stay on to of those PWC. I know some say that doing PWC stops the cycle or messes with it. The bacteria is not growing in the water you change, its toxic water. The bacteria is growing on the gravel, decorations and walls. Make sure not to disturb the decorations, filter or walls etc.

Also like I said grab some bio spira

Also my pictus do not like high PH. I know some say they get them to adjust but I have to keep mine at around 7 to 7.5 to keep them happy. It is not the best for my snail though lol and I have to give him calcium.

Keep us posted

[Marc van Arc]

Hi courtnee and gerilyn,
Nice chat is evolving here. Perhaps you both missed it, but the PC community likes all its members to add a location, which is of course to provide better help.

[courtnee]

Thanks for the heads up. It is done ;)

[gerilyn]

I now have one spotted pictus catfish. Bummer ... as I reported Monday night, they'd finally started swimming around the tank "normally"; Tuesday morning, dead catfish (no visible signs of trauma). The petstore refunded my money on the deceased and tested my aquarium water:
7.2 pH
0 Chlorine
0.5 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
Soft Water

Should I still consider 3 pictus (that is, buy 2 more), or will 1 pictus survive the loneliness? What other fish should I consider when my 10-gallon tank finishes cycling?

[grokefish]

Your tank hasn't cycled. You should have no amonia the nitrite that is going to come will kill your other fish (it's even more toxic).
I would advise that you take him back and swap him for some danios to cycle the tank, they are hard as nails or less cruelly for some credit in the store and cycle it with prawn. Three days is nowhere near enough time to cycle a tank.
Another trick that I have found is using fallen beech/oak leaves that have started to decay in damp conditions. They have lots of the good bacteria already on them. I did this as an experiment whilst bored once and the tank cycled in about 5 days.

[courtnee]

I do not suggest adding anything living to the tank until it is cycled. You have to look at the water in a cycle like you in a room with bad air with poisons in it. It is cruel. That is MHO.

You still have one in there and even though some people suggest pictus cats are hardy I disagree. Owning them I have found them to be "touchy" to water change. You already have the fish so what can be done from there on out...

1) return the fish for credit and do a fishless cycle

2) Keep the fish with high risk of losing it and a lot of work, but you can have odds of pulling through it. a) You need to finish cycling that tank. Ammonia is at a toxic level. You will find that some say 1 below is okay. Many people say no higher then .5 and some say it should remain lower then that. You are in a time right now that ammonia can raise even higher.
b) Test, test, test at home and test daily. If the levels move up PWC the water and get them back down. In my 10 gallon, it was everyday I was doing a 50% and the levels were still really bad.
c) Go to your LFS and get a squeeze of filter media into a ziplock bag. Some gravel ANYTHING with bacteria on it (decline on water as it does not hold the bacteria the surfaces and filter do)this will speed up the process so much faster and introduce some bacteria to start cleaning up the water for the fish.

[gerilyn]

I'm mad that the instructions that came with the aquarium said add fish on the 3rd day! How's a new fishkeeper to know any better!?! I was following the instructions!

[courtnee]

Oh I hear ya. I talk on another forum and it seems like everyday here comes a newbie with fish passing away and a toxic tank. I was one of them.

My 10gl I did the same thing. I lost two goldfish that I intended on keeping. Since reading up on it and learning I was able to do a fishless on my 55gl and that felt good and makes me proud. I learned.

You learned and are learning. That is where a lot of people that are fish lovers get upset. Many LFS will tell you to just fill it up and add hardy fish. All they want is the sale. Some will even let you overstock or get the wrong fish, they dont care they want the sale.

Fishless cycle is popular but at the same time there are many that believe in using feeder fish or other hardy fish to still cycle. It is a choice in the end.

The other issue you run into is lack of information at the point of sale. Many places put down the WRONG size of a fish. Like a Clown Loach being 6" adult size. LOL They get HUGE!!!! Columbian Sharks being 6" at adult size. Many get over 12" and as they mature they need to switch to brackfish and as adults they have to switch from brackish to full out marine or else their skin has problems.

Goldfish are kept in bowls when they can get huge and outgrow a 10gl tank no problem.

I am here because I love catfish and you will see that many catfish are misunderstood as well. Plecos are very abused out there because of the lack of information. Many of them get huge. Many people want a sucker fish for their smaller tank and get a common pleco and get shocked it grows so large.

The lack of information has lead to many fish starving to death. Throw a pleco into a tank and assume they will just eat the algae and it is enough and watch your fish die from starvation. Many snails starve to death as well from this belief all they need to do is eat algae.

They do not tell you that these little guys will eat veggie or other foods you can give them.

The only way to know for SURE is to read and read more and educate yourself. Read fish profiles and you will see even those vary online. After reading several pick what you have seen over and over. The profiles on this site I have found to be honest and very educational about the fish.

Join forums and talk to other owners of the same fish you have or fish you are interested in.

My LFS is great and I have two guys that are amazing that work there that have helped me A LOT and they supported my fishless cycle and answer my questions and I ask them again online and get a lot of the same advice.

One day I stopped in and bought another Spotted Pictus and came home with it. (the usual fish guys were not there and some kid got it for me) Thought the color looked funny on the fish, it was a odd pattern and the color was more gold compared to silver, the whiskers were dark instead of white. I thought it was a fluke. I later bought a four-line pictus and realized my other one looked the same. They had previously sold me a four-line when I asked for a spotted pictus. I started to read and read more on four-lines and learned they can grow several inches more compared to a spotted pictus. Good thing I do not mind keeping the four-lines. What if I had a smaller tank and that happened?

You cant even always trust you are getting the right fish and that it is named right. The kid doing the selling had no clue about fish it seems. I see this often. If the other two were working they would of known.

You will see many people doing things a different way and you will learn to take what you hear the most and apply it. That is what I have done and have an amazing tank!

Sorry this is so long, but its the truth and in the end you are the only one you can count on when you go to the store.

Stick with us and even if your pictus does not make it, lets get that tank cycled and get you where you want to be with happy pictus. As a pictus owner I can say they make me happy and are great fish to keep and provide me with a lot of joy and I would like to see you get there too.

[MatsP]

I'm mad that the instructions that came with the aquarium said add fish on the 3rd day! How's a new fishkeeper to know any better!?! I was following the instructions!

Well, adding fish on the third day is probably not in itself bad advice (unless you plan on using "fishless cycling"[1]), as the tank will not cycle without some source of ammonia, and the natural source of ammonia is fish "pee" [1] and poo. However, it's best to do the cycling with "hardy fish". That is NOT

Pimelodus pictus

. Hardy fish will survive the cycling, particularly if you only use a few fish. I still have Rosy barbs that went into my 400 liter tank (including the two babies that were born in the first few weeks of the tank - obviously more were born, but we didn't manage to catch them!). But 6 rosy barbs in a 400l (110 us gal) isn't a lot of fish, so the buildup of ammonia and nitrite is pretty slow, which helps.

Obviously, there are shops of all sorts, but I would say that the ones I go back to are ones that give good advice, and when I first set up my tank. A good shop will care for the customer - because they will want the customer to come back, and come back again. The profit in a fish-shop is not in the fish. I've probablys spent $300 on fish in my tank. The last few weeks I've spent more than that on the setup of filtration for water and related storage tanks, hoses, material for "shelf" and such.

I have seen some daft instructions - we gave a couple of friends a small tank for their daughters, and it came with instructions to replace all of the water in the tank every few weeks - not a particularly sound advice, in my opinion.

[1] Fishless cycling is where you introduce a source of ammonia other than fish - such as a piece of shrimp, fish-fillet or even adding drops of pure ammonia. I've never used this method.

[2] Fish don't technically pee, they excrete ammonia through their gills. Ammonia is one end-result of breakdown of protein. Humans (and other land living creatures) don't dispose of ammonia directly, because it's consuming too much water, so it's converted to a less water consuming form, called urea.

--
Mats

[BassinBeanieCats]

I got my Pictus cat, threw him in a 10gal tank and he is the happiest little monster all over the place and absolutely crazy when it's feeding time.

Now my new cats I put into a 65 gal tank - 1 redtail and 1 shovel nose - I got 5 days ago they change their attitude everyday. The shovel nose hid until last night, now he is all over the place. Where the redtail seems to be cozying in his hole. Actually I think the shovel nose got fed up of being pushed out of every hiding place by the red tail so he gave up hiding. oh, and one only wants pellets and the other only wants live fish which I'm sure will change when they get bigger and eat everything in sight .