new to owning pleco: general question/fear for goldfish

[cf2]

My husband just got a small tank- maybe 2 gallons, from a local discount store, because my autistic son likes to look at fish. He got a very nice dark orange goldfish with beautiful streaming tails and fins and a 'pleco', The pleco is about 3 inches from nose to tip of tail.
My husband was under the impression that he didn't have to feed the pleco anything special- that he would eat the algae and the leftover flakes that the goldfish didn't eat. I'm seeing now from a few informational websites, that we might should be feeding him wafers of sorts. How do we know if he needs the meat(shrimp) pellets or the algae wafers? This pleco is a "common" looking one- brown with dark spots...Its likeness is on almost every website. I look forward to your replies, as we have no support from the store where we bought the fish.
I also read that the pleco might "orbit" the goldfish when it is sleeping and rasp it to suck on its slime coating. Is this true? Should we not have these two fish together? How can we protect the goldfish? Thanks again for any info!

[Jools]

Hi,

It's an odd couple, but one that will work until the pleco gets too big (the common ones grow way past a foot long), so you weren't sold a good fish for that reason.

Plecos attacking sleeping fish is a myth. They will eat dead or nearly dead fish.

The common pleco will survive on algae and flakes but it's not ideal. Commons will take any sinking food, so I'd recommend sinking catfish tablets over algae / spirulina wafers.

Jools

[racoll]

Hi cf2.


Unfortunately in addition to a bad choice of fish, you weren't sold a suitable tank either.


I don't believe a two gallon tank is really suitable for any kind of fish, let alone a goldfish and a plec.


To give the goldfish an acceptable standard of welfare I would choose a tank of at least 30 gallons.


In a two gallon tank the fish will be subjected to rapidly changing temperatures and very high levels of pollution. There will also be little room to swim or hide.


He may last a couple of years, but that's all. Goldfish are naturally very long-lived if given a good life, and some varieties can live well over 20 years.


Sorry to make this sound like a lecture, but if you can afford or have room for a bigger tank, it will a lot more enjoyable for the fish and your son.


I hope this has been of some help.

[Iporangensis Headach]

Get the goldfish out of that tank if you have a heart or get a bigger tank, you would be looking at least 3ft for the fish you have there.

"Goldfish only grow to the size of the tank" is the biggest load of dog-doo-doo you can be told. A goldfish will only stay the size of the tank if the water is not changed for a very long time.

They secrete a chemical that they re-detect and if its not diluted enough the growth hormone will not kick in, if you were to put a tap over the tank (Don't) and turned it on you goldfish would be bigger than the tank in about 2 months (Well it would die first - But for arguing sake) as the growth hormone will be diluted and the fish will continue to grow (as long as its fed a good diet).

My girlfriend had a Comet goldfish as I suspect yours could be (they have long single tails) in a 12"x8"x6" tank (about 3Gal) for 11 Years!!! she was 2" long for all this time, she was severely neglected and was not fed for a year as they wanted it to die!!!, I got pretty mad at this point and decided I was upgrading the tank.

Lets just say she was not that impressed when I walked in with a 4ft tank, anyway after 3 years in the tank with a 45% water change every week, completely varied diet, lots of tank mates to keep her occupied so got to a foot long!!! Yup a full foot (12") she went from brown to bright orange with a white tail, absolutely perfect fish, she died at 14 years old as she lost her balance and could not keep upright and passed away.

Ill get you a vid of her on Youtube some time today

Azz

[Iporangensis Headach]

The Earth Eater (Main fish in the vid) is just over 6", the goldfish is 3/4 of the way through the vid,

(And yes i make a crap camera man!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wORj7HKu6DE

[chris 1]

I'd give that shop a miss in the future

[cf2]

Thanks for your friendly advice.
Re: wafers-- I went out tonight and got algae wafers that had a pic of my pleco on it before I checked this post. I put one in. I will fish it out in the morning, and maybe try to get some sinking catfish food as one of you suggested. What is the best way to remove it without contaminating the tank, as it now seems to be all soggy and easy to break? He has not been interested in the wafer at all so far.
Re: size of tank- The tank is very small. We had a large tank in Las Vegas a few years ago, and all the fish died of some terrible disease where they got all swollen, so we figured we'd try a small simple tank to start out again. The small tank went from cloudy to sparkling clean in the few days that we had it with the two fish. We do have room for a larger tank. When we get it, I will get advice from you on how to move the fish.
Re: places to hide-- There is a waterfall/pseudo-rock piece in the bottom of the current tank that has holes in it for the goldfish to hide, but tonight the pleco was in there. I hope it isn't stuck. Thanks again for answering me so quickly.

[cf2]

Wow! Just watched that video. It is good- especially when the goldfish swims by. Was there a music soundtrack in the background? My goldfish is a miniature replica of that one. I didn't know the ones with the fancy tails could grow that big.
You are one of the replies who posted about the size of the fish vs. the tank.
I've heard that myth, that they would not outgrow their tank- thought the same about the pleco. So, is it the general consensus among goldfish enthusiasts that it is cruel to keep a goldfish in a traditional bowl (Like Elmo's fish Dorothy?) At least our little tank has some kind of air filter.. We will consider getting a bigger tank. Will they most likely be miserable until we do? Our goldfish always appears to be nervous. We are pleased with the water being so clear, so we hadn't given a thought to changing it. Kind of afraid to, actually. The fish are still alive.
When our fish all died in Las Vegas, the water had turned all cloudy and reddish. I think something had happened to the filter. The Ph level went through the roof. We tried following the advice at the pet store.. Kept bringing in water samples, putting in products to balance the Ph, etc... but they all got sick or died. We brought the sick fish back to the store so that we wouldn't have to watch them die. All this happened within a month of getting the tank.
The water quality seems better in Florida, we haven't even tested the Ph...

[racoll]

What is the best way to remove it without contaminating the tank, as it now seems to be all soggy and easy to break?

The best way to remove uneaten food is to siphon it out with a thin tube/hose.

He has not been interested in the wafer at all so far.

Don't worry the plec will get used to eating the wafers. It may take a several feeds though. Also what temperature is the tank? The plec is a tropical fish, and will need a temp of over 20-22C to stimulate feeding.

We had a large tank in Las Vegas a few years ago, and all the fish died of some terrible disease where they got all swollen, so we figured we'd try a small simple tank to start out again.

I think your lack of success with this tank was down to reasons other than its size. Big tanks offer much more stable conditions that small tanks. The waste the fish produce takes much longer to get to dangerous levels.

So, is it the general consensus among goldfish enthusiasts that it is cruel to keep a goldfish in a traditional bowl (Like Elmo's fish Dorothy?) At least our little tank has some kind of air filter.. We will consider getting a bigger tank. Will they most likely be miserable until we do?

I'm no goldfish enthusiast (I prefer catfish!), but personally I don't think they should be kept in those kind of bowls/tanks.

To say its cruel is perhaps not true. Goldfish (and common plecs) are simple creatures. They are extremely hardy and can survive very poor quality water.

However they will lead a stressful life, and not reach their true potential. Most are likely to die much earlier than they should.

Our goldfish always appears to be nervous.

If you give your Goldfish a three foot tank, a couple of friends, a power filter, some sand, bits of wood/stones, a thicket of plastic plants, change 50% of the water each week and provide a varied diet, you will make the goldfish as happy as it is possible to be for goldfish.

The Ph level went through the roof. We tried following the advice at the pet store.. Kept bringing in water samples, putting in products to balance the Ph, etc...

Unfortunately most staff in pet stores do not know how to look after fish properly. Try and find a specialist aquatic store.

All this happened within a month of getting the tank.

Did they tell you about "cycling" or "maturing" the tank/filter with bacteria? This is also called "new tank syndrome". If you just add fish straight to the tank they are very likely to die.


The good news is that forums like this are great places to get the best advice.

[cf2]

I think there was a problem with some bacteria (in a pouch) that we added to the tank to "cycle" it before adding the fish. I didn't do anything like that with this one. We just let the water sit in the tank with the filter running for about a week before purchasing and adding the fish.