Tanin and snails

[betta blue]

I've got my two 10 gal. aquariums with a Betta Slendin and my wonderful "Pl*c" in one. He's gotten very shy and though he's now grown at least 2 more cm., he never sunbaths like he did in the 5 gal. He also doesn't play with his "other" betta. The other 10 gal. has another Betta Splendin and a bristlenose who is so shy, I only see him come out when I put an agae biscuit out and I don't move for about fifteen minutes. I have two problems:
1. Although I soaked the driftwood for 48 hours, it's been over two weeks now and the tanin is still very viseable in the tank with Pl*c. I'm not sure about the filter system as it is only a sack with sponge on the sides and carbon in the middle. If I clean it or replace it, does that not equivalate to a "new aquarium" with lack of "good bacteria"?
2. With the 10 plants I bought for the 2 10 gal. aquaruims, I got a number of snails in each. My mistake in not waiting to see if I had them. I intentionally had bought an Apple Snail that I feed daily for the 5 gal. tank, now with the infiltration in the 10gal. tanks of snails that are not Apple, I worry that my Algae tablet is going to the snails and not the Bristlenose or L. Pardalis. I see both pl*cs eating the tablet...and yes, I need to do the zucchini thing...just am not sure exactly how to parboil, etc. with it...and keeping it down in the aquarium. Back to my snail problem, watching them grow these past two weeks, looks like I have a few different species based on their shells.

An update from a novice...so far, everyone including the Oto's have survived. Blue, after his fin rot and then ick, is doing wonderfully and has the same finnage as Red now. I thank Red for showing me that Blue had problems so I could read about diseases that Betta's get. Thanks to Red, Blue has survived and looking beautiful!

My problem is that I love anything that lives and am questioning whether I should use the old Betta bowls to put the snails that I inadvertantly inherited. Will they survive in that environment? If I keep putting the ones I find into the old betta bowls, should I put the gravel in both and the horrible plastic plants that were included with the aquariums. I can't kill them. Will they survive in a desolate environment? I can keep feeding them algae biscuits.

Please don't tell me to just kill the snails. I'm trying to find a solution for them.

Thx,
Shar

[MatsP]

I've got my two 10 gal. aquariums with a Betta Slendin and my wonderful "Pl*c" in one. He's gotten very shy and though he's now grown at least 2 more cm., he never sunbaths like he did in the 5 gal. He also doesn't play with his "other" betta. The other 10 gal. has another Betta Splendin and a bristlenose who is so shy, I only see him come out when I put an agae biscuit out and I don't move for about fifteen minutes. I have two problems:
1. Although I soaked the driftwood for 48 hours, it's been over two weeks now and the tanin is still very viseable in the tank with Pl*c. I'm not sure about the filter system as it is only a sack with sponge on the sides and carbon in the middle. If I clean it or replace it, does that not equivalate to a "new aquarium" with lack of "good bacteria"?

No, you can use old aquarium water for the cleaning process, and that will just rinse out some of the muck out of the sponge, but not kill the good bacteria. Tannin from the wood is actually not bad for the fish (although some people prefer if the tank looks crystal clear, most tropical fish live in fairly murky waters, so the fish shouldn't be bothered by it at all).

2. With the 10 plants I bought for the 2 10 gal. aquaruims, I got a number of snails in each. My mistake in not waiting to see if I had them. I intentionally had bought an Apple Snail that I feed daily for the 5 gal. tank, now with the infiltration in the 10gal. tanks of snails that are not Apple, I worry that my Algae tablet is going to the snails and not the Bristlenose or L. Pardalis. I see both pl*cs eating the tablet...and yes, I need to do the zucchini thing...just am not sure exactly how to parboil, etc. with it...and keeping it down in the aquarium. Back to my snail problem, watching them grow these past two weeks, looks like I have a few different species based on their shells.

You're cheating - that's two questions posed as one [how to deal with snails and how to feed plecos]

Part 1: How do deal with snails...
Snails can be a pest sometimes... There are three ways to get rid of them:
1. Chemicals - not my preferred way.
2. Snail-eating fish - if you search the forum on the topic of "snails", you'll probably find quite a few threads that discuss snail-eating fish.
3. Manual removal - just place some suitable food in the tank to attract the snails and remove the snails by hand.
(A 4th idea is of course to completely ignore them, but they can overpower just about anything else in the tank, and you may end up with a lot of plants with holes in them too).

Part 2:
For reasonably adult bristlenoses or L. pardalis, zucchini (courgette) and other similar vegetables do not need parboiling in general. I would boil (until reasonably soft) things like broadbeans (fava beans I think is the north american name of thes), but zucchini, potato, sweet potato, broccolli stems and such will not need any boiling. Melon is another favourite...

[/quote]

An update from a novice...so far, everyone including the Oto's have survived. Blue, after his fin rot and then ick, is doing wonderfully and has the same finnage as Red now. I thank Red for showing me that Blue had problems so I could read about diseases that Betta's get. Thanks to Red, Blue has survived and looking beautiful!

My problem is that I love anything that lives and am questioning whether I should use the old Betta bowls to put the snails that I inadvertantly inherited. Will they survive in that environment? If I keep putting the ones I find into the old betta bowls, should I put the gravel in both and the horrible plastic plants that were included with the aquariums. I can't kill them. Will they survive in a desolate environment? I can keep feeding them algae biscuits.

[/quote]
Ah, didn't read the whole post before replying to the snail bit...

Snails are pretty easy to "grow", and they will survive in just about any condition that has sufficient water and some food. They will eat vegetables as well as more meaty food (such as algae tablets).

However, you will find that you'll get too many whichever way you do this, unless you have unlimited supply of snail-bowls... When I last moved my medium tank, I removed about 100 snails from the tank. It was "snail free" when I installed it in the new location, but every week I've been removing 10-20 snails...

What are you going to do when you have LOTS of snails???

--
Mats

Please don't tell me to just kill the snails. I'm trying to find a solution for them.

Thx,
Shar

[apistomaster]

If you have a larger wallet than your tanks the dwarf Botia, Botia sidthimunki, is a great little fish for your small tanks and they can naturally control your snail population. They may not eliminate all the snails but they will keep the snails from overrunning your tanks. They won't harm apple snails but they will eat the young pond snails and ramshorn snails. They won't do much for controlling Malaysian Cornucopia snails which live most of their lives burrowing in the gravel.
I see the Botia sidthimunki for sale at about $15.00 each. They have become endangered in the wild and attempts to breed them have not met with much success. They rarely grow to more than 2-1/2 inches and prefer to be kept in small groups. They are very attractive and interesting fish in their own right and are very good community fish.

[newt0524]

Hey

I ve had some drift wood in a 20 Gal tank for about 3 months now and the tanins are still in the water. I believe that a carbon filter is supposed to help take care of this, however it hasn't done anything in my tank. Even with regular water changes, the colour is still in the water. I don't really mind it now, just warning you that it may be there for quite some time.

If you boil the wood (a few hours at least) it will remove the tanins quicker. However, any baceria that has developed on it will die.

I also have snails, and again don't really mind them. They are good for helping to process waste and keep algae from developing. True, they will start to snack on the plants though, so you need something robust and better off not broad leaved. (nibbling is more noticable)

hope this helps
newt

[apistomaster]

One positive thing about tannin loaded water is that is tends to acidify the water especially if your water is soft. This is a hostile environment for snails making it difficult for them to obtain enough calcium carbonate to form shells or maintain them. In fact you will often see signs of shell dissolution in such water on the living snails. The addition of a water polishing filter with render the water very transparent although still tea colored. This is a very good environment for most SA species. Using as much live food as possible will help reduce the snail's food supply as well. In the end some kind of compromise is perhaps the best you can hope for.
When I set up spawning tanks containing snails, I pump out all the water through a sponge filter attached to the pump intake after removing the fish and the refilling the tank I put in about 1/2 cup of chlorox bleach to kill all snails and eggs. I then remove the treated water and refill it with tapwater and a large dose of dechlorinator. After a day I drain the tank and rinse every thing and replace the old water and my Corydoras breeders. At least this way there are no snails to eat the eggs while they incubate for 4 days.
Anti-snail warfare is an imperfect science and the snails have many ways to circumvent our efforts. Even after the drastic procedure I describe I am not surprised when baby snails reappear. It is a good idea to have an established filter to install in the recently purged tank to avoid recycling problems.
I should have also added that this method is not wise if you have sand/gravel substrate containing perhaps thousands of Malayan trumpet snails as they will all die and if you set the tank back up with the same substrate the dead snails will quickly putrify. This substrate would need separate handling,dechorination and quite some time for the dead snails to be converted to harmelss waste by products before it is safe to reuse. I use bare bottom tanks for breeding Corydoras and any other species where this method works.

[betta blue]

You were right! The aquarium with the tanin has only a couple of larger snails now but that's it. I can now recognize both the type of snail I have...common pond snail with football shell..and see the eggs laid that I can disrupt before they hatch. Sorry, getting a little harder here and have been taking 10 to 20 snails out of the clear aquarium every few days that go into the plastic betta bowl. Guess there were too many in it and most have died. Surprise, I found out that Betta Splendens are suppose to eat baby snails...so as of today, I have cut poor Wally's outside food source to half of what I've been feeding him (he's in the clear 10 gal.)and hopefully he will start eating the tiny snails. I also found out that Apple Snails eat tiny snails so will probably transfer the Apple to the 10 gallon tank tomorrow. He's gotten a bit big for the 5 gal. anyway.

[apistomaster]

You might want to crush the snails as they appear or are being placed with the Betta. It will make it easier for him to eat the snail meat and will prevent any more eggs coming from that snail.

[betta blue]

Wow! have I changed in my attitude. I scrunched baby snails. I have some corydoras and a cherry shrimp on order. I put some of the bigger snails in the betta bowl but it seems like a destiny to death. A couple of snails are attempting to survive the conditions with an algae biscuit daily but most are dying quickly, With the Apple Snail in the problem tank, I think I will stop my external efforts to rid them. I do appreciate the advise of scrunching the real babies so the betta could eat...or maybe the apple snail...whateverer, seems to me that I have alot less than yesterday,

Still working the snail thing here...

Shar

[Gozza]

This might sound a bit odd but I actually have a small snail tank. I dont really want kill the snails that I find in my fish tank so I just move them into the other tank when I find them.

[betta blue]

Can you advise the conditions of the tank you put your snails in? I felt concerned about the snails and put them in my "old" betta dish with only a plastic plant but I put an algae tablet in their bowl daily. I think it is too cold here and they may have froze to death. All the snails I put into the bowl seem to have died. Although I'm scrunching 10 to 20 small ones daily on the window of the 10 gal., honestly, the whole idea of scrunching turned me off till I was overrun. The tanin tank seems to be undercontrol. I think I have four bigger snais that did survive and I haven't bothered them cause they aren't overtaking everything in sight. Of course, I love my Apple Snail. He's a looker and growing regularly...about 3 times since I bought him a month or so ago...maybe two months...need to start a journal.

Thank you for appreciating the snails. I would like to keep them alive but I'm seeing eggs and can't believe just how many this one tank has...they have overrun everthing in site...I only scrunch the ones on the glass.

Again, will appreciate any comments about a separate area for the snails provided I don't need to buy another aquarium with heater for them. I have pond snails in one tank but the snails that have survived the tanin tank, I'm not sure what type they are.

I appreciate not scruncing...but they are overtaking the tank!

Shar
Betta Blue

[apistomaster]

A plastic bucket with a small sponge filter will house alot of snails. Feed them parboiled zuchinni slices, algae wafers amd regular all purpose flake food.
I don't understand why you would want more pest type snails in the world but I do raise the albino mystery snails. They sell well and I especially like them when they are dime sized to act as scavengers in my fry tanks. It take any two mystery snails to breed them but keep them in a covered container as they lay their eggs above the waterline and will sometimes climb out and dy on the floor if you don't notice them missing righ away.
Another idea is visit a thrift shop and see if you can pick up a small 2-3 gallon plastic aquarium for a few bucks so you can see your pets but do use a sponge filter to keep the water fresh.
Larry

[betta blue]

Thx everyone for your input! I'm definately changing with my attitude after six months as a "new" aquariumist. I thought the snails were under control and then put my Apple Snail into a 5 gallon aquarium that was getting a lot of algae. What happened was that the snails became a problem again. I saw some of the snails actually on the bristlenose under the driftwood and I freaked. I took the driftwood out, scrunched as many of the snails I could and then washed the driftwood out. I then took the apple snail out of the 5 gal. and put him back into the 10 gal. I have about 50 snails that seem to be surviving the betta bowl in a cold window box with no heat. I still give them an algae tablet but only about once a week now. They all seem to be surviving there. I have scrunched so many in the tanks and with the tanin tank, after seeing them on the bristlenose, I took out about 10 big ones from the tanin on...and yes, it still has the tanin in the water...my L. Paradis does not need the hastle...there still are some in his tank as well but they still seem to be in control. In the other 10 gal. tank, I spent about two days scrunching. Both tanks seem to have a "fat" Betta in them. I've reduced feeding the Betta cause they look fat. I've posted another subject called Glass Catfish...but that's another story. I have live plants in all the tanks but so far, the snails haven't destroyed any. I've dumped the water from the betta bowl and have replenished it with 100% chlorine from the tap and the snails seem to still survive. Mostly, I wanted to do an update on my condition. I think I need to start killing snails in my Betta tank. I don't have any purpose of having 50 plus snails. I can't believe how hardy they are!

[grokefish]

Fava beans and a nice chiante

[kcmt01]

As far as snail control is concerned, when our Anadoras Grypus gets a little behind, we just grab some with a pliers and break them into the tiger barb tank. Great fun! Like giving a worm to chicks.