My first aquariums(s)-small

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 18 Oct 2006, 02:06

Help! I'm 52 years old and have never had an aquarium before. I got two betta's that found the little areas considered okay for them were outrageous. Since then, they both have 5 gallon aquariums and a life...but I also planted them with plants and then got my new catfish (2 otos for one and a pl*co for the second). I have so many questions that I find that the petstores don't even try to answere. One...I love all my fish! and though I haven't ever had aquariums before, they all seem to be surviving though I need to know more.

1. My Pl*co is suppose to be the "common" variety that grows to 16 inches. I still haven't been able to find his exact name from the store I bought. But how much time do I have before finding a bigger aquarium...He (she) is about 8 cm right now and he (she) is eating like a horse! He (she) is totally active throughout the day...when the sun hits the front of the aquarium late afternoon...he loves sunbathing on the front of the glass with his tummy exposed to the heat? That doesn't sound normal? He also seems to love playing "ring around the rosey" with the Betta around the lava rock...it's like a game for both of them? He takes his algae tablet and like a puppy...keeps it in his mouth and tries to figure out where to put it...he moves it around the aquarium a number of times...is he hiding it from the betta? I can't find any of it in the morning so suppose he's eaten it.

2. When I first got the Oto's they were on the sides of the aquarium constantly. The Red Betta was like a mother and would float on top of them with his fins just hovering over them. The betta seemed to always want to be with them but not threatening at all or playing like Blue and my pl*co. Now the Oto's are in hiding all day and only come out very infrequently when I have the lights on. Is this normal?

Sorry for the novel. Afraid I have many questions but thought I would introduce myself now as the neurotic female with Bettas and catfish.

Any info you can give, I will appreciate! Thankyou!

Post by **Birger** » 18 Oct 2006, 05:33

Hi,welcome to PC

You seem to be doing things well so far,I would like to suggest returning the common for a variety that would stay smaller,for eg.a bristlenose pleco,that could save headaches and heartaches in the future.

I am not sure where you live in Edmonton but try this place,they should be helpful to you
http://www.naturescornerstore.com/page/page/2469882.htm

Also they seem to have a good club in Edmonton,which is a great place to learn http://www.fish-club.org/index.php

Birger

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 18 Oct 2006, 06:11

Thank you Birger! You have no idea the stress of worrying about these wonderful fish and knowing I do not have the background to know what I am doing. I will definately look at the site and the place you mentioned. Sometimes I feel like everyone knows about aquariums and I'm starting too late in life! I love my guys, my plants though I do much better on the plants outside and inside and am just learning about plants inside water... Thx again!

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 18 Oct 2006, 06:27

PS: I am now firmly and emotionally attached to my Pl*co...and will do what I need to to keep him healthy including buying aquariums as he grow to maintain him til he just gets too big and maybe find a public aquarium that I can donate him to provided that they will take care of him. He is so wonderful!!! I do agree that a bristlenose is more the size I would like. I also thought about a hillstream loach...not sure if the temperature is too high in the aquarium and if the filters allow enough water movement. In the interim, I need to see if I can buy a digital camera to find out exactly what species of a pl*co I have. I'm just watching my Oto's right now and they are both moving so fast around the aquarium it's tuckering me out watching them...it's late...their lights are off but the light in the room is on so I can see them. Is it normal that they would swim that fast for this long in the aquarium...I would think that they would like to find a glass wall with lots of algae on it...or one of the two plants that are full of algae? Red (the betta) seems to want to be involved but they are moving too fast for him?

Guess I'm just a "sucker" for catfish and betta's

0

Shar,
Betta Blue

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Oct 2006, 11:47

Welcome to Planet Catfish.

Common pleco: Probably . They grow fairly quickly if you treat them well - several inches in a year if the water is reasonably clean and you serve them lots of vegetable food... There are several other fish sold as "common pleco" too, but the pardalis is by far the most common. In a five gallon, I'd say that it's on the larger side of what you want in a 5g tank a the moment, so finding a larger tank is probably a good idea already...

Oto's are more nocturnal than diurnal, so that's fairly normal. They are also very difficult to feed, particularly with the big pleco eating anything and everything they would eat (and some other stuff the Oto's wouldn't want to eat). Although Oto's are very popular and frequently found in the trade, they are not quite as easy as pleco's to keep... They eat very little other than algae, and only certain types of algae to make it even harder to feed them - courgette(zucchini) that has been boiled and left in the tank for 24 hours may be passable as a food - but that's probably not going to work with the eating machine called a Pleco in there... [At least, that's what I've been reading on them - I have never kept Oto's myself, as I have baby bristlenoses to keep my small tanks clean - Gus (female) and Warren (male) have just spawned again, and it looks like a bumper brood, so I'm sure I'll get another 50-80 little ones in a couple of weeks!]

My advice would be to get a bigger tank - I'd say 40g or bigger. Move the pleco to the big tank, together with two or three other fish to start the cycling [any "solid" fish will do]. Get another few Oto's to make the ones you have more active and happy in the 5g tank - say a group of 6 in total.

However, bear in mind that a fish that easily grows to a foot (30cm) will need a tank that is at least 4 x 2 x 2 foot (1.2 x 0.6 x 0.6m) - that's about 120 US gallon, 450 liter - that's assuming it stops growing at one foot (30cm), which isn't by any means guaranteed.

If emotions wasn't part of the puzzle, I'd recommend getting rid of the pleco, and geting, for example, a pair of common bristlenose - they are very nice algae eaters, and only grow to a good 4-5" (10-12 cm), which means that they manage quite well in a medium-sized tank (20g+).

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Oct 2006, 15:55

Welcome to the forum betta blue.

Not much to add besides what MatsP and Birger have said, except that otos prefer to kept in large groups (at least 6).

When I had some they were swimming round and feeding all day. They feel safer in numbers which is probably why you don't see them very often.

Get some more by all means, but one problem to look out for is that they probably won't find enough of the "right kind" of algae in the tank so they will need supplementary feeding (as MatsP pointed out).

This isn't a problem in itself, but vegetables can foul the water very easily, and a small tank and filter may not be able cope.

Time for that upgrade

EDIT: didn't read Mats post thoroughly enough

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 19 Oct 2006, 21:06

Thank you Birger, Matt and Racall for your replies. You have no idea how much it means to me. I'm afraid I have gotten quite attached to my Pl*co and will attempt to make his life comfortable if I can. I watch my first betta enjoying his company...they both seem to be wonderful tank mates right now and I would swear that they give each other some excercise throughout the day without having any type of ill agression. The Pl*co decides when he's had enough of this Betta doing full circles in full finnage around him but he honestly doesn't seem to mind. I'm a little concerned about separating them right now. Do I buy a bigger aquarium and put both of them in it? I've been subsidizing food with a part algae tablet that is gone every morning...eaten during the day?

The Oto's are in another tank with another Betta and don't have the Pl*co eating their food. They don't seem to be eating the portion of an algae tablet that I have given them...take the old one out and try another portion in a couple of days. There is still a little bit of algae on the glass and they don't seem to be cleaning meticulous (like the pl*co did on his) and they are not going for the algae on the top of the Java Fern. The Amazon Swords are totally algae free in both tanks.

I'm just heading out to check on another aquarium for Sammy, the Betta I was given. I hate seeing him in this horrible "Betta" vase without much of a life of co-inhabitants. Though he has come to know me casue of the feeding, he still needs a better life than a "bowl" can give him. In time, I plan on getting a bristlenose as his tank mate.

I was told Corydoras were good tankmates for Bettas...but they do not eat algae but fish waste. With their active swimming, I'm not really sure how the Betta's will accept them and then on an eco system, how bad is their waste...even with cleaning the tanks regularly, I'm concerned about a number of fish that "poop" a lot for the quality of water for them and the betta's?

Thx,
shar
Betta Blue

You mentioned the right kind of algae for the Oto's. What kind of plants provide that algae?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Oct 2006, 10:24

Whilst I can appreciate that fish "play with each other", I do believe the best option if you want a happy Betta and a happy pleco is to put the pleco in a bigger tank and leave the betta in a small tank - however, there's nothing saying you can't keep one betta in a big tank. Just that you're a bit more limited on what other fish you can put in there, as anything that grows a bit bigger (even the pleco perhaps) will outswim the Betta with it's big fins, and some fish thinks that Betta is "tasty", it will have no chance... At the same time Betta's don't go well with some other fish, since they are nippy and a bit agressive - so there's more restrictions on what you can put in the tank. It's not impossible, you could have a nice tank with LOTS of small tetras for example, (a couple of hundred neons or cardinals for example, looks quite nice in a tank). But make sure they are not a kind of Tetra that "nips fins", there are several kinds that "supplement their food" by biting bits of fin of other fishes...

Cory's are lovely, but as you say, not algae-eaters. I wouldn't say that they eat poo, more like the little microorganisms that help break down poo and uneaten food, and such. They are good "cleaners" in the tank. If you have a decent size tank (5-10g), a group of 5 or so smaller Cory's will do quite nicely...

Bristlenoses do best in a tank that is at least 10g, so if you're buying a tank for Sammy, bear that in mind. You could also have a few small tetras (say 6-8 neons) in that size of tank.

What type of algae for Oto's: They like the soft, short green algae. They don't really eat much else. Long dark green "hairalgae" or "hard spot" algae is definitely "suitable food". An alternative is courgette (zucchini) that has been boiled and left in the tank for 24hours to soften it further. Try a small piece of a slice that is about 1/4"(6mm) thick. Pierce it with a teaspoon or some such to make it think. (Rubberband around a rock will work too).

--
Mats

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 21 Oct 2006, 22:40

Thank you Mats! I did buy a 10 gallon aquarium on Thurs. and am apprehensive cause I went cheap. The aquarium is not constucted as well as my "Waterhomes". Cause it said it was a "Top Fin" aquarium and that was the brand of heater I had bought for the 5 gallon ones, I thought i had done well in cost...same price for a 5 gallon but it cost less overall cause I didn't need to buy a heater. I am not impressed with the filter system. It is one bag. On the Waterhome aquariums, my filter has separate
packages" for each: sponge, carbon and rock that I need to change alternatively so as not to destroy the "good" bacteria. Though I am a novice, should I question a system that changes one bag that seems to have a small amount of sponge and carbon as opposed to a system that you change the sponge, carbon bag or a rock bag...but never all at once?

Thank you again for your email. I was about to put Blue and Pl*c (his name is without the o at the end) into the 10 gallon together...and put Sammy into the 5 gallon. Instead, thanks to you, I will put Sammy and my potentially new "bristlenose" pl*c into the 10 gallon. I will wait til I can place a larger aquarium into our atrium...got caught up with plants that some were growing taller than our ceiling so we built an entrance room for them with a potential 20 foot ceiling...told you I was neurotic

. All the plants are loving their new room we built about 15 years ago...but it also has space for a bigger aquarium and it's on solid concrete and though we need to extend the floor boards from the living room, we can easily accommodate a 30 gallon...my husband is questioning a larger size but if I continue in my "new mode" I see that a larger tank may fit and I think larger tanks are easier to take care of and with the time I have accepted to take care of 2 - 5 gallon tanks plus two small, horrific betta type environments that I need to constantly attend to...I think I can handle the aquariums. It's important to me. I need aquariums with lids (for the cat) and heaters cause it gets real cold here in the winter and our house gets cold...rather deal with that scenario now instead of panicking in the winter.

Thank you for the advise on the Betta's. At this point, I love the betta's for their coloring and finnage and beauty watching them swim. I love the pl*c cause he too has personality and guess he reminds me of something a little prehistoric. Intially, I enjoyed the Oto's but now, they are never around during the day, and I worry that they still are there and need a magnifying glass to find them daily. They also aren't like the Pl*c to keep the glass clean...is that cause I only have two of them? I'm now looking at a sponge to clean the front glass...they have not cleaned it...though they did when I first bought them?

So what you said, I can accommodate 6 oto's and a betta in a five gallon aquarium? In my 10 gallon aquarium, I'm putting Sammy into it and want to buy a bristlenose plec which I now have on order for a week from now. What other fish do you recommend with my new tank. Also, cause I'm addicted now, I bought another beautiful Betta fish that is navy in color with translucent light salmony colored fins...He's spectacular in color but doesn't have the same length of finnage that the other betta's have. I guess I've committed to another 10 gallon tank...and would appreciate your replies to the last one I bought...what I'm seeing is to buy another filter system for it...but I actually don't like the way they have sealed the corners of the aquarium...sure it it okay that it is aquarium friendly silicone...is it safe over time and doesn't cause problems? The cost is good and now I'm a little concerned about buying a "used" tank cause I don't think the people will be honest if they lost their fish cause of disease. Told you I was neurotic...but also paranoid not to bring infection to my fish. Have only started doing this 3 months ago...so far, everyone has survived through my own learning experience. Aren't they special!

Shar
Betta Blue

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Oct 2006, 12:37

Buying aquariums is always a daunting task - do you get what you pay for, or more, or less? Unfortunately, living in England, I can't comment on brands in the US - I do visit there from time to time, but not sufficent knowledge about brands of aquaria to comment on that.

Buying used tanks shouldn't be a big problem - you can clean it with plenty of salt and rinse it well with tap-water (which unless you have your own well is chlorinated to kill bacteria and such). Also leaving the tank standing (without water) for a few weeks with no fish in it will help reduce the risk of transferring any disease from the tank to any new fish-inhabitants.

Most people give up fishkeeping because their fish died for one reason or another - and those are the most likely candidates for a sale of the tank... With the above precautions, you should have very little risk of any problem.

As to filters and filter care... There are several different designs of filters, and all have their good and bad points. I'm a greate believer in "as little cleaning as possible" on the filter. Rinse the media in old tank-water, and put it back in. The manufacturers like to sell new media, but it's actually rare that it "wears out" [1].

If you clean the filter media with tank-water, you'll wash out some of the good bacteria, but ther should still be plenty left to "work" in the biological filter stage.

Putting the tank in the atrium sounds great, as long as the temperature isn't too extreme in summer or winter.

And you're right, bigger tanks are just as much work as a little one, except it may take 5-10 buckets of water instead of half a bucket to do a water-change. The big tank is more stable, so it can allow you to do fewer water-changes - but the temptation with a big tank is to keep big and/or many fish, which sort of puts the bioload per volume to the same...

[1] Aside from carbon filters, but I don't particularly feel a need to use them either - the point of the filter is twofold: biological filtration to "deharm" the ammonia/nitrite into nitrate, and mechanical filtration: catch particles in the tank so that the water looks clean and "lumpfree" - both of which works fine without carbon - there are places where a carbon filter will be good, but it's unusual rather than common.

There are also "chemical additives" that you can put in the filter, for example chalk bags that make the water harder, but for the fish you keep, they shouldn't be necessary.

--
Mats

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 24 Oct 2006, 06:47

Thx again for all the info. Tomorrow, I will purchase a second 10 gal. aquarium and am not as concerned about filter systems thx to your info. I confirmed my request today for two bristlenose pl*cs from the pet shop. They have an albino and normal one that I will pick up this Saturday which gives me time to regulate the second 10 gal. aquarium. Poor Pl*c...I guess he needs to wait til I get my bigger tank...which I'm trying to co-erce my husband on bigger and bigger....The atrium is fine and where the tanks will go, will have indirect sun and there is no heat cause the windows are tinted and we have a main fan to adjust for winter and summer. We can easily support a 120L aquaruim but I am seeing the potential of a 200L one...time will tell. I know that that too will be too small for my new found Pl*co.

Any advise on bristlenose pl*co's in a 10 gallon aquarium...I'm a little apprehesive of an Albino. Through my little knowledge, albino's in any species are usually quite weak? I am just working on the plants for the 10 gallon aquariums. Your aquariums look wonderful with all the plants and I like the broken clay pots. I have lots of broken clay pots from my outside gardening. Can I use that clay if I clean it well first? Not sure if I told you before, but I have two lava rocks that we got from a volcano in Canada! two big green glass stones my father-in-law gave me cause he thought they were pretty...like 10 years ago...and two glass insulators from the days my husband worked on telephone poles plus one piece of petrified wood. I'm running out of stuff

I certainly appreciate your advise!

thank you again!

P.S. After I have spent all this money on aquariums and fish!, maybe I can afford a digital to send pictures of my guys

!

adimeatatime · Post by **adimeatatime** » 24 Oct 2006, 15:16

Hi BettaBlue, I was reading your post & didn't know if you had found the following links that show pictures of the various "common" pl*cos.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/scripts/cl ... s+pardalis
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... cies_id=87

This is an article Shane wrote about Oto's. His articles are very interesting. IMO
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=178

You will find a great deal of info in the Cat-elog that is on this site as well.

I have an albino bn and don't find him to be any problem at all. He is very active & I see him more than any of my other pl*co's. He really likes zucchini and cucumber. We, also, have abino corys with my daughters betta (in a 4-5 gallon tank) and another tank with a betta and panda corys. They are busy little guys and seem to "get along" fine.

There are sites that are specifically about bettas as well. I did a search on them a while back & found several good ones for betta specific info.

From my experience (not as much as many of the folks on this site though) the type of filteration on the tank helps keep the water cleaner. I have read of common pl*cos being pretty messy, just because of the size they get to be. I have an external penquin filter that catches a great deal of solid particles and a bio wheel as well along with canister (Rena XP3 & XP4) filters on both of my bigger tanks (a 50 gallon and a 125 gallon). There is so much info available, it can be daunting to sift through it when first looking.

Good luck to you with your new "friends". They provide me with a great deal of enjoyment. I have my tanks in my office and it is nice to be able to look up and watch the fish for a few minutes to give me a little down time when needed.

edited to add: Pictures would be great fun whenever you can!

Have a great day, Pat

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 28 Oct 2006, 09:04

Thanks for your help! On Wednesday, I bought 8 plants for the 2 - 10 gal. aquariums...4 each with their own driftwood. Getting ready for my new baby's...the 2 bristlenose...and time Sammy and Trans (Trans has a navy body with transluscent salmon colored fins) found space to swim free! Instead of buying additional Oto's, I purchased an apple snail to deal with the algae on the 5 gal. that the Oto's weren't dealing with. The snail has done such a great job in two days and though the sides of the aquarium aren't totally clean yet (as Pl*c did in his), I'm subsidizing algae biscuits in the tank to make sure that the 2 Oto's and of course Goldie (the snail) have enough food. Tomorrow is my big day to get the 2 bristlenose's. I want to put them into the 10 gal. aquariums first and then in a couple of days put their room-mates...the betta splendens...Sammy and Trans into them. I may be wrong, but as a territorial fish, I think the Betta's will accept them if they are there first. Any words of wisdom about my logic? Or about Apple Snails?

Thx
Shar
Betta Blue

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 28 Oct 2006, 09:23

PS: Found out my Pl*co's species "Hypostomus Pl*costumus"...he's got beautiful leopard type markings but he still grows big. He's a lovely common pl*co that aquariums sell and I'm quite attached to the fellow. Found his exact picture on a site selling Trinidad? Pl*co's.

Shar
Betta Blue

PS: Oh dear...there are so many beautiful colors for Betta's! Running out of space for them! And then with the real plants, each aquarium needs an algae eater...and I do like the catfish! types...and they get along with the Betta's!I'm trying to keep control til the next time I see a different and beautiful Betta...think I'm now looking at another fish for a larger tank...so I will try to keep blindered when I walk by the Betta's!

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 30 Oct 2006, 01:52

I got my two new bristlenoses and happy I checked the tank forum cause the pet shop said the Albino (so little...smaller than the Oto's)is a bristlenose and the "big" guy...8cm is a "bushynose"...I am happy to hear they are one of the same. I put the tiny albino into Blue and Pl*c's tank. The Albino is so tiny (but very active) that I plan on him staying in the 5 gal. tank for awhile...once my second 10 gal. tank stablizes in a few days, I will transfer Pl*c into it...I can tell that his body has grown already since I've gotten him. The 8 cm bristlenose that I bought seems to be quite happy in his 10 gal. aquarium with 5 live plants and a piece of driftwood but he gets a new room mate in about a week with one of the Betta's in the bowls. A little concerned about the albino (Al by name) cause he's so small and does have pink eyes and his body is totally translucent. Is he more susceptable to everything? Of my four Betta's, Blue is certainly the most curious? aggressive compared to Red who happily resides with his two Oto's and an apple snail. Blue is constantly checking out moving and doing a full fin (without his gills flared) attack? I'm hoping that the little Albino can deal with Blue? Should I be concerned?

Thx,
Shar
Betta Blue

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Oct 2006, 13:46

I've got bristlenoses with Betta splendens, and there's no problem with that.

As far as I can tell, my albinos are no more sensitive than the average bristlenose pleco - but of course, I've only got a very small sample of specimens to "try" on [they were "created" by the accidental incesteous(sp?) spawn of "mum and son". Mum obviously carries the albino gene, and spawning with her own son gave 25% albinos. The first several weeks they were doing fine, but unfortunately a hole in the breeding net let some of them out, and some others that I moved to another tank got hit by Ich (and all the bristlenoses except two in that tank died - no difference whether they were brown or albi no), so I'm currently down to 2 albino guys (both are male) that are around 10 months old and around 5-6cm long.

I'm curious that you have a . There no doubt that those have been imported to the trade, but in recent years (at least here in Europe) the seems to have taken over. However, they are still quite often sold with a label of H. plecostomus even when they aren't.

H. plecostomus grows a bit less big than the other forms of "common pleco".

--
Mats

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 01 Nov 2006, 03:07

This is exactly like what my pl*co looks like...he very leopard in his markings. http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_pleco2.php
I guess the site doesn't come up automatically but if you copy and paste, you can see my pl*c on google. I'm transfering him tomorrow to his new 10 gallon aquarium. I think that the B.Splenden and the Pl*co have grown and it's time to move the Pl*co. I still have the very little Albino Bristlenose with Blue. Aly...new albino...has space to grow.

I am neurotic...with my first fish "Blue" he got fin rot within 3 days of my purchase and after two or three weeks dealing with that, he got Ich. He has survived both but I've read he is now more prone to both diseases. I can only thank Red who was healthy and made me research more when Blue was sick. Red is still healthy. Blue has grown all of his fins back and is looking good though I'm a paranoid Mom for all my Betta's now, especially Blue...though he is the most aggressive of all of them.

I am looking at purchasing shrimp cause the Pl*co and I am assuming the Bristlenose (the big guy) will be the same. The plants appear to be giving a healthy setting...will shrimp that they claim I do not need to feed eat the poo from the Pl*co and Bristlenose?

Thx...your neurotic female...what I am I going to do when I loose one of these lovely fish? Not a time to go there...

Shar
Betta Blue

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 01 Nov 2006, 11:48

I'm 90% sure that the fish in the aquahobby web-site is NOT a Hypostomus (be it specifically plecostomus or otherwise).

Compare with this picture:

.

That's a sub-adult of L. pardalis, which is the most commonly available pleco.

In fact if you browse the aquahobby site with "more comments", you'll see that the fish in the pictures is more and more like a large L. pardalis.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (as the size differece is about 50% larger for the L. pardalis than the Hypostomus species).

I haven't seen a "proper" Hypostomus in a shop since I got back into aquariums a few years ago. They were common some ten-fifteen years ago.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time a web-site has an incorrectly identified fish, so beware of websites when trying to ID fish - they aren't all correct (even here at PC there is sometimes confusion and disagreement of the correct identity of a fish).

I have no experience with keeping shrimp, so I can't really comment on that. Perhaps someone else has some comments.

--
Mats

Reginator · Post by **Reginator** » 01 Nov 2006, 18:39

I keep a variety of freshwater shrimp, tiny cherry red ones, blue ones, tiger striped... The thing to avoid is the long-armed varieties, I had a thai freshwater prawn for years in my community with no trouble until I bought a small clan of panda cories, at that point my peaceful prawn converted into a mass murderess and hunted and killed all but one of the cories in a single weekend, I only saw her attacking the second from last one, so managed to save only one of the cories.

. So, if you want shrimp go for the less than 1.5" adult sized, short-armed varieties, and you should have no trouble

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 01 Nov 2006, 21:13

Shar, I just have a little to add to the good information already given here. I can tell you more about what Otocinclus catfish eat, having kept them for about eight years now, in three different tanks, under different conditions.

I think I would describe the Otocinclus as a mostly vegetarian fish with omnivore characteristics, which means they require a small component of meat in their diet. Because of their tiny size, they can get most of what they need from the biofilm that they graze. It is not just algae that you see in that greenish-brown film on your glass, or covering objects - there are all sorts of microorganisms living there as tiny freshwater microfauna. The oto grazes the whole film which contributes to a well-rounded diet.

As long as you have plenty of brown, and greenish-brown, algae in the tank, you would need to supplement feed only once a week, Iâ??d say. Feed fresh or frozen green peas, parboiled, and zucchini* squash (much more nutritious than cucumber, and just as much cellulose.) Parboiling for two or three minutes allows the slices to sink; you will need to experiment with that, or use Mats method of impaling.
Recently, I fed mine a piece of cooked white potato, and they really went for it.

Hikari wafers for algae eaters are high quality and specially prepared to cover all the needs of these little fish. There are other brands of course, but strangely, catfish in general seem to prefer Hikari. Read the labels, regardless. Make sure all the proteins, plant complements, and vitamins are included. This is important for their good health. Just to give you an idea, one high quality sinking algae wafer or tablet (SERA, Hikari, etc.) could feed six otos nicely for a week, if no other fish are in the tank.

Otos can actually die from â??overeatingâ?

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 03 Nov 2006, 09:24

Thx MatP. Your photo is definately my guy who has now grown noticably since I got him. I'm going out of town tomorrow morning and won't be back til late Saturday. I will try the zucchini probably Mon. or Tues. after I transfer him to the 10 gal. tank on Sun. Again, thx for setting me right about how big he will grow...for a short while, I thought he'd being smaller. I still don't know how long I have before I have to transfer him from the 10 gal. to hopefully a 30 gal. and then how long before he outgrows that?

Thx for your patience,
Shar
Betta Blue

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Nov 2006, 11:05

A 30g tank is about 75 liter, which means that it's just over two feet long if it's a foot wide (which is around the normal size for these things), so it will take the fish up to about 6" by my stanards. How long will that take? Can't really say. Not very long, I should think, if you keep looking after everything well. Maybe more than a year, but unlikely to be more than two.

[One of the problems with doubling the fish-size is that it essentially requires 8 times more water-volume each time you double all the dimensions of a tank. You may get away with a little bit less than double in some direction, but you're still looking at more than 5 times more water each time the fish doubles in size, so to go from a 30g to cope with a fish that is 1 foot long, you're looking at more than 150g...]

This is why I'm against keeping _REALLY_ large catfish, such as the Red Tail Catfish that grows to more than a 4 feet in nature.

--
Mats

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 05 Nov 2006, 05:13

They Survived

I left friday morning at 8AM, told the neighbour who was feeding the cat and dog not to feed the fish but to turn the lights on and off. I came back Saturday night at 7PM and they were all there! swimming! Fed them...and interesting that Pl*c (he's grown about 1 cm in one month) let the albino bristlenose (Albi) eat a portion of the aglae tablet. Goldie, the snail, quickly went onto his glass mound to devour his algae tablet...he's grown 1 cm in two weeks...he may be destined for one of the 10 gallon tanks but how large for him before I transfer him? He seems to live well in his communal setting with the betta and two Oto's. I'm very attached to Pl*c and with your information, after the 30 gallon tank in the atrium, I still have the basement for a larger tank...baby steps...one step at a time

...now I would like to post replies to both the wonderful people that gave me advise about shrimp and oto's...I hope they will read them!

My question is how big does the apple snail grow before I need to transfer him out of the 5 gal. aquarium?

Thx,
Shar
Betta Blue (my baby who started all of this!)

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 05 Nov 2006, 06:07

I've read and printed out your article on Oto's that I can refer to. Guess my little tank has helped them survive but I'm not getting any more brown algae from my plants...only green that accumulates on the front walls and on the surface water. The surface algae seems to get heavy eventually and sinks...and then someone eats it...snail? or Oto? Also, I still have green algae on the front of my tank even with an Apple Snail. It looks like I'm going to have to clean it myself with a sponge. I put a half algae tablet in daily...mostly for the Apple Snail to make sure he doesn't eat my plants...but have watched the Oto's eat the remainders of it as well as clean stones with Algae. They are definately spending more time on the bottom of the tank with the rock, on the lava rock and in behind the heater.

Again, thank you for the article!

Shar
Betta Blue

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 05 Nov 2006, 06:14

Reginator wrote:I keep a variety of freshwater shrimp, tiny cherry red ones, blue ones, tiger striped... The thing to avoid is the long-armed varieties, I had a thai freshwater prawn for years in my community with no trouble until I bought a small clan of panda cories, at that point my peaceful prawn converted into a mass murderess and hunted and killed all but one of the cories in a single weekend, I only saw her attacking the second from last one, so managed to save only one of the cories. . So, if you want shrimp go for the less than 1.5" adult sized, short-armed varieties, and you should have no trouble

Just learning quotes and stuff on the forum

. So what varieties grow less than 1.5"? cause I'm kind of thinking of some cories. Also, how big of a tank do they need when they are full grown? Do they really clean up wastes from other fish including pl*c's and snails? And finally, do I still need to subsidize the feeding?

Thank you for the response to my shrimp question. I look forward to more info...

Shar
Betta Blue

betta blue · Post by **betta blue** » 05 Nov 2006, 06:36

Thanks Deb! I printed out your information and it will help me with the "Oto twins"...happy to say that they are both alive and swimming with Red (the Betta) and Goldie (the apple snail). Initially I had brown and green algae but now I only have green. The algae on the front glass is not being eaten by either the Oto's or the snail. The algae on top of the aquarium becomes heavy and falls into the aquarium and then disappears by I don't know who. Though the snail is an Apple, I don't see him above the water line to take care of the agae above surface on the tall plants. I've cleaned some of it off but keep thinking someone will eat it? I now plan on getting more Oto's...the aquarium is established...will that be a problem cause I have no brown algae anymore? Also concerned on not getting too many of them in a 5 gal. tank with a Betta Splenden, Apple Snail (though I can transfer him if the Oto's start cleaning the glass...probably not?...still an option to transfer the snail. I just worry about water space and thanks to MatP, have learned how big of a tank I need to house a Pl*c. I totally appreciate the info you sent.

Thx
Shar
Betta Blue

My first aquariums(s)-small

My first aquariums(s)-small

Attached to my Pl*co

New Bristllenose

common pl*co links and other info I've found

New Bristlenoses

L. Pardalis

Thanks Pat! For the Otocinclus article

Otocinclus